Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
Moderator: Moderators
Forum rules
This area is dedicated to technical discussions concerning AW10's and AW11's. Please try to spell correctly because this will help people find information later if they are using search functionality. If you need assistance with your car and want to host a spanner day, please use the appropriate section of the forum: http://mr2.org.nz/phpbb3/viewforum.php?f=35 Thank you.
This area is dedicated to technical discussions concerning AW10's and AW11's. Please try to spell correctly because this will help people find information later if they are using search functionality. If you need assistance with your car and want to host a spanner day, please use the appropriate section of the forum: http://mr2.org.nz/phpbb3/viewforum.php?f=35 Thank you.
- mickeyduck
- Life Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 6144
- Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:30 am
- Stomping Ground: Auckland
- Prime Mover: More than one MR2
- First name: Charlie
Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
Ever since hitting the limiter at Hampton downs I've been curious as to how you get a J-spec AW to do more than 185kmh
Ade, who founded this club and had a track AW as well as a road one, told me you remove a certain screw from the back of the instrument cluster, but she couldn't remember which one.
I've just managed to score a NZ spec instrument cluster which reads up to 240kmh and have had a quick look at the back of it. Sure enough you can see there is a screw, a circuit, and two bridged connectors on the 185kmh version, which aren't there on the 240kmh one. So as I understand it you could remove the screw from a J-spec AW instrument cluster and thereafter your AW would be able to get up to 240kmh (on a race track, eh).
Ade recalls that when you have removed that screw your AW will go the whole hog, but after going beyond 185 you usually get the check light coming on because the ECU has got confused. Doesn't hurt anything, just requires resetting the thing to make the light go away.
Anyway here's the photo showing the 185kmh cluster at top, the 240kmh cluster below (I need to go refit the actual speedo part of it).
If you're into racing an AW and try this, feel free to post any further info and verify whether I got this right or not. Cheers.
EDIT / CORRECTION some time later: the screw to remove is the one labeled RS (restrict speed) near the speedo cable attachment. Not the one pointed to by the arrow in the earlier pic above. The photo below shows the RS screw which can be pulled to disable the speed sensor signal and therefore eliminate the 180kmh speed cut on J-spec AW's. Note also this has an effect upon how a 4AGZE runs (read on).
Ade, who founded this club and had a track AW as well as a road one, told me you remove a certain screw from the back of the instrument cluster, but she couldn't remember which one.
I've just managed to score a NZ spec instrument cluster which reads up to 240kmh and have had a quick look at the back of it. Sure enough you can see there is a screw, a circuit, and two bridged connectors on the 185kmh version, which aren't there on the 240kmh one. So as I understand it you could remove the screw from a J-spec AW instrument cluster and thereafter your AW would be able to get up to 240kmh (on a race track, eh).
Ade recalls that when you have removed that screw your AW will go the whole hog, but after going beyond 185 you usually get the check light coming on because the ECU has got confused. Doesn't hurt anything, just requires resetting the thing to make the light go away.
Anyway here's the photo showing the 185kmh cluster at top, the 240kmh cluster below (I need to go refit the actual speedo part of it).
If you're into racing an AW and try this, feel free to post any further info and verify whether I got this right or not. Cheers.
EDIT / CORRECTION some time later: the screw to remove is the one labeled RS (restrict speed) near the speedo cable attachment. Not the one pointed to by the arrow in the earlier pic above. The photo below shows the RS screw which can be pulled to disable the speed sensor signal and therefore eliminate the 180kmh speed cut on J-spec AW's. Note also this has an effect upon how a 4AGZE runs (read on).
#8^) Charlie the certified Westie
Retired - President 2012 - 2018
Retired - Committee Member 2009 - 2018
Retired - Auckland Area Coordinator 2009 - 2018
Retired - Webmaster, Forum Host & Admin 2010 - 2018 - Now it's mknz
Financial Club Member since 2004 and thanks to *84vvt and co-conspirators, Life Member since April 2017
100+ MR2OCNZ runs and counting... When going hard, good rubber's your best protection against unwanted accidents. Buy good tyres!
When you're nearing the end of the drag-strip and you have no 'chute, you may as well keep your foot to the floor... Live life. There ain't no second pass.
Retired - President 2012 - 2018
Retired - Committee Member 2009 - 2018
Retired - Auckland Area Coordinator 2009 - 2018
Retired - Webmaster, Forum Host & Admin 2010 - 2018 - Now it's mknz
Financial Club Member since 2004 and thanks to *84vvt and co-conspirators, Life Member since April 2017
100+ MR2OCNZ runs and counting... When going hard, good rubber's your best protection against unwanted accidents. Buy good tyres!
When you're nearing the end of the drag-strip and you have no 'chute, you may as well keep your foot to the floor... Live life. There ain't no second pass.
- Benckj
- Forum Moderator - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 7148
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:44 pm
- Stomping Ground: Otago
- Prime Mover: More than one MR2
- First name: Jim
Re: Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
I'm curious about this too especially if it can be done on an SW20. Somehow I don't think its that simple especially on those cars which have an electronic speedo.
Jim Benck
90 rev 1 parts car
98 rev 5 GT- all the mods
90 rev 1 parts car
98 rev 5 GT- all the mods
- *84vvt
- Life Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 2557
- Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:44 am
- Stomping Ground: Wellington
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Colin
Re: Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
The ECU requires a SPEED signal, the signal is the purple with white stripe wire from the dash to the ECU
if you slow or decrease the number of "pules" say from 4 to 2 then the ECU only sees half the "speed"
This will keep the ECU happy and give you the higher top speed.
All you need to know about the Toyota ECU is here
http://www.autoshop101.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A must read if you ask me .
if you slow or decrease the number of "pules" say from 4 to 2 then the ECU only sees half the "speed"
This will keep the ECU happy and give you the higher top speed.
All you need to know about the Toyota ECU is here
http://www.autoshop101.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A must read if you ask me .
Boosted cars are like hot women.
A little edgy, every guy wants one,
some guys can't handle them,
and if you throw a little alcohol in them they'll rock your world.
A little edgy, every guy wants one,
some guys can't handle them,
and if you throw a little alcohol in them they'll rock your world.
- Reuban
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 703
- Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:17 pm
- Stomping Ground: Hawkes Bay
- Prime Mover: Looking for an MR2
- First name: Reuban
Re: Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
My black SW had the speedo signal signal wire cut right behind the dash. Went fine, could get right up near the end of the 240k speedo.
Looking at the bgb speed signal comes from dash cluster whether cable or electric speedo,(Havn't looked at the really late model BGB) maybe signal is created/converted there and sent to the ECU.
Unless its an auto i don't know if it needs speed signal at all.
Another good reason to go aftermarket EMS
Looking at the bgb speed signal comes from dash cluster whether cable or electric speedo,(Havn't looked at the really late model BGB) maybe signal is created/converted there and sent to the ECU.
Unless its an auto i don't know if it needs speed signal at all.
Another good reason to go aftermarket EMS
- optional
- Life Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 5:36 pm
- Stomping Ground: Manawatu
- Prime Mover: More than one MR2
- First name: Keith
Re: Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
If the signal for the speed limiter is the purple/white wire then the removal of one screw would work. Not the one you show in the photo though.
I just had a look at my car which has no dash in and the purple/white wire goes to screw at the lower right side of the speedo (at about 4 o'clock).
Removing that screw would indeed disable the speed signal if the purple \/white wire is the correct one. Makes sense and Ade would know what she is talking about.
Keith
I just had a look at my car which has no dash in and the purple/white wire goes to screw at the lower right side of the speedo (at about 4 o'clock).
Removing that screw would indeed disable the speed signal if the purple \/white wire is the correct one. Makes sense and Ade would know what she is talking about.
Keith
- mickeyduck
- Life Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 6144
- Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:30 am
- Stomping Ground: Auckland
- Prime Mover: More than one MR2
- First name: Charlie
Re: Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
I'm thinking you may well be correct. That screw is marked "R.S." if I'm looking at the same one, which might stand for "restrict speed"...?optional wrote:If the signal for the speed limiter is the purple/white wire then the removal of one screw would work. Not the one you show in the photo though.
I just had a look at my car which has no dash in and the purple/white wire goes to screw at the lower right side of the speedo (at about 4 o'clock).
Removing that screw would indeed disable the speed signal if the purple \/white wire is the correct one. Makes sense and Ade would know what she is talking about.
Keith
That one would be my bet for that reason, except I then went looking for differences in the circuitry which from the looks has probably put me crook. So maybe the "R.S." screw is the limiter and the other one is the annoying 105kmh bell?
Just to clarify, Ade told me there was a screw to remove but she couldn't remember which one it was. All I can say is if she said that's all there is to it then I have no reason to doubt it.
As I've not managed to test this particular theory myself, please feel free to post here which one it actually does turn out to be if you do manage to get it sussed (anyone).
I might try this in my (currently broken) AW when I get it back on the road. Meanwhile I'm probably going to fit my running AW with a 240kmh speedo this weekend, while replacing its broken cable.
Thanks for the info folks. It'd be fun to nail this particular thing. Having been bouncing off the limiter around Hamptons...
#8^) Charlie the certified Westie
Retired - President 2012 - 2018
Retired - Committee Member 2009 - 2018
Retired - Auckland Area Coordinator 2009 - 2018
Retired - Webmaster, Forum Host & Admin 2010 - 2018 - Now it's mknz
Financial Club Member since 2004 and thanks to *84vvt and co-conspirators, Life Member since April 2017
100+ MR2OCNZ runs and counting... When going hard, good rubber's your best protection against unwanted accidents. Buy good tyres!
When you're nearing the end of the drag-strip and you have no 'chute, you may as well keep your foot to the floor... Live life. There ain't no second pass.
Retired - President 2012 - 2018
Retired - Committee Member 2009 - 2018
Retired - Auckland Area Coordinator 2009 - 2018
Retired - Webmaster, Forum Host & Admin 2010 - 2018 - Now it's mknz
Financial Club Member since 2004 and thanks to *84vvt and co-conspirators, Life Member since April 2017
100+ MR2OCNZ runs and counting... When going hard, good rubber's your best protection against unwanted accidents. Buy good tyres!
When you're nearing the end of the drag-strip and you have no 'chute, you may as well keep your foot to the floor... Live life. There ain't no second pass.
- Malcolm
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 638
- Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 8:24 pm
- Stomping Ground: Auckland
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Malcolm
Re: Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
Probably the best way to remove the limiter, which will work (AFAIK) for all manual MR2s, (not sure, but it's possible automatics need an accurate speed signal to function correctly), is to install a frequency divider in line with the speed signal to the ECU. The wire should be purple/white stripe on everything from the AW11 to Gen 2 SW20s, then from Gen 3 it is an orange wire. Check the appropriate wiring diagram and confirm for yourself before cutting the wrong wire and blaming me
So you need a frequency divisor IC, such as this one from Jaycar http://www.jaycar.com/productView.asp?ID=ZC4024" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I would also suggest getting a suitable socket (http://www.jaycar.com/productView.asp?ID=PI6454" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), and probably some veroboard to attach your wires to (or just solder to the legs of the socket if you want...) (http://www.jaycar.com/productView.asp?ID=HP9540" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Have a look at the last page of the datasheet for the IC to see how the pins are numbered. All you need to do is:
Cut the speed signal wire that goes from the speedo to the ECU. Connect side that comes from speedo to pin #1
Connect speed signal to ECU to pin #12
Connect pin #14 to a 5V power supply, there should be at least one of these coming out from the ECU (TPS, MAP, AFM and most other engine sensors with 3-pin connectors run off 5V, on a Gen 3 this is a red wire, pin #1 on the 16 pin ECU connector)
Connect pins #2 and #7 to ground
The result is that the pulsed signal being sent to the ECU is halved, so instead of a speed cut at 180kmh you get one at 360. If that's not high enough you can connect to a different pin on the IC, but I'd be very surprised if anyone can get an MR2 going that fast on the stock ECU!
So you need a frequency divisor IC, such as this one from Jaycar http://www.jaycar.com/productView.asp?ID=ZC4024" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I would also suggest getting a suitable socket (http://www.jaycar.com/productView.asp?ID=PI6454" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), and probably some veroboard to attach your wires to (or just solder to the legs of the socket if you want...) (http://www.jaycar.com/productView.asp?ID=HP9540" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Have a look at the last page of the datasheet for the IC to see how the pins are numbered. All you need to do is:
Cut the speed signal wire that goes from the speedo to the ECU. Connect side that comes from speedo to pin #1
Connect speed signal to ECU to pin #12
Connect pin #14 to a 5V power supply, there should be at least one of these coming out from the ECU (TPS, MAP, AFM and most other engine sensors with 3-pin connectors run off 5V, on a Gen 3 this is a red wire, pin #1 on the 16 pin ECU connector)
Connect pins #2 and #7 to ground
The result is that the pulsed signal being sent to the ECU is halved, so instead of a speed cut at 180kmh you get one at 360. If that's not high enough you can connect to a different pin on the IC, but I'd be very surprised if anyone can get an MR2 going that fast on the stock ECU!
- Alsw20
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 1747
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:56 pm
- Stomping Ground: Christchurch
- Prime Mover: SW20
- First name: Al
- Redmist
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 249
- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:12 pm
- Stomping Ground: Bay Of Plenty
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: John
Re: Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
They have been known to out drive a 180km speedo.Alsw20 wrote:AW doing 240km/h?
Being able to see 200km at a glance is a bonus.
-
- Guest of the Club.
- Posts: 1735
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:38 pm
- Stomping Ground: Auckland
- Prime Mover: SW20
- First name: Lee
Re: Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
And there area a couple of 3sgte powered AWs around.. they might hit 240.. not sure how stable they'd be at that speed tho!
Gen 2 GT trackcar: Used and Abused, now getting some TLC.
CL7 Euro R, the fun begins at 6000 rpm
CL7 Euro R, the fun begins at 6000 rpm
- 85AW20v
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 888
- Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 10:25 pm
- Stomping Ground: Bay Of Plenty
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Simon
Re: Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
When you take out the 105km bell, make sure you put the 2 screws back in as they act as earths for a few other parts of the circuit board.mickeyduck wrote:.... and the other one is the annoying 105kmh bell?
See ya
Simon
- optional
- Life Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 5:36 pm
- Stomping Ground: Manawatu
- Prime Mover: More than one MR2
- First name: Keith
Re: Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
The bell on mine was "removed" merely by cutting the wire from the screw (I think it is a yellow wire). It is all still in place.
Now I may be paranoid, or maybe just old but the speed warning may be a useful feature. I am sure that we have all received ticket for excessive speed when we were just cruising and did not really mean to be exceeding the speed limit. This is now an expensive lapse in concentration!
Since my instrument cluster is currently out I am going to re-instate the speed warning, with an added feature. I have a circuit that I used on another car which, at the touch of a button will disable the warning for as long as you are above the speed limit, plus another preset time ( say 2 minutes). This allow you to pass a line of traffic and then settle back down to the speed limit without the annoying ding, ding, ding but still warns you when you don't want tickets.
This, or alternatively a simple switch to break the circuit to the bell when you want to be an idiot, or when you are playing on the track, seems to be a better option: the best of both worlds perhaps.
The only issue I have is where to hide the button. After what I have spent restoring the thing I want it as original as possible.
Now I may be paranoid, or maybe just old but the speed warning may be a useful feature. I am sure that we have all received ticket for excessive speed when we were just cruising and did not really mean to be exceeding the speed limit. This is now an expensive lapse in concentration!
Since my instrument cluster is currently out I am going to re-instate the speed warning, with an added feature. I have a circuit that I used on another car which, at the touch of a button will disable the warning for as long as you are above the speed limit, plus another preset time ( say 2 minutes). This allow you to pass a line of traffic and then settle back down to the speed limit without the annoying ding, ding, ding but still warns you when you don't want tickets.
This, or alternatively a simple switch to break the circuit to the bell when you want to be an idiot, or when you are playing on the track, seems to be a better option: the best of both worlds perhaps.
The only issue I have is where to hide the button. After what I have spent restoring the thing I want it as original as possible.
- mickeyduck
- Life Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 6144
- Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:30 am
- Stomping Ground: Auckland
- Prime Mover: More than one MR2
- First name: Charlie
Re: Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
I've read here and there that a supercharger can get to about 140mph which is getting pretty jolly close (240kmh = 150mph)Alsw20 wrote:AW doing 240km/h?
The n.a. AW's top out somewhat earlier apparently due to lesser torque etc.
I guess next time I'm at Hamptons or something maybe I'll find out? We'll see...
Finally fitted the 240kmh speedo to Stripe this arvo, and I left that RS screw out so we'll see what comes of it.
As for AW stability Lee... I find the thing tends to hunker down more and more the faster you go. More speed = more stability it seems. At least that's been my experience up to 185kmh. Though I do think adding a vent in the bonnet for the radiator like in an F308 or F328 makes lots of sense. Anyway, back to the topic at hand...
#8^) Charlie the certified Westie
Retired - President 2012 - 2018
Retired - Committee Member 2009 - 2018
Retired - Auckland Area Coordinator 2009 - 2018
Retired - Webmaster, Forum Host & Admin 2010 - 2018 - Now it's mknz
Financial Club Member since 2004 and thanks to *84vvt and co-conspirators, Life Member since April 2017
100+ MR2OCNZ runs and counting... When going hard, good rubber's your best protection against unwanted accidents. Buy good tyres!
When you're nearing the end of the drag-strip and you have no 'chute, you may as well keep your foot to the floor... Live life. There ain't no second pass.
Retired - President 2012 - 2018
Retired - Committee Member 2009 - 2018
Retired - Auckland Area Coordinator 2009 - 2018
Retired - Webmaster, Forum Host & Admin 2010 - 2018 - Now it's mknz
Financial Club Member since 2004 and thanks to *84vvt and co-conspirators, Life Member since April 2017
100+ MR2OCNZ runs and counting... When going hard, good rubber's your best protection against unwanted accidents. Buy good tyres!
When you're nearing the end of the drag-strip and you have no 'chute, you may as well keep your foot to the floor... Live life. There ain't no second pass.
- mickeyduck
- Life Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 6144
- Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:30 am
- Stomping Ground: Auckland
- Prime Mover: More than one MR2
- First name: Charlie
Re: Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
OK a wee update, some time later.
As I posted here earlier I fitted the 240kmh speedo to my AW SC with the RS screw removed, thus providing the ECU with no speed sensor signal. I discovered this made the engine idle at 1200rpm instead of 800rpm, prevented it revving beyond 7000rpm whereas it usually went to 7500rpm, and made it run rich and use a lot more gas. So I pulled it out again and put the 180kmh original cluster back in.
A couple of years later I have a different AW SC and Malcolm has been immensely helpful and fitted the 240kmh speedo with a frequency divider as described in his post just earlier on this thread. The wiring was done only on the speedo (no cutting the loom) so that the speedo can be fitted to any AW SC to eliminate the J-spec 180kmh speed cut. Here is a link to the build of the thing in case anyone is looking for more info. And eventually I expect I'll be able to explain how it worked out too.
http://mr2.org.nz/phpbb3/viewtopic.php? ... 96#p133096
As I posted here earlier I fitted the 240kmh speedo to my AW SC with the RS screw removed, thus providing the ECU with no speed sensor signal. I discovered this made the engine idle at 1200rpm instead of 800rpm, prevented it revving beyond 7000rpm whereas it usually went to 7500rpm, and made it run rich and use a lot more gas. So I pulled it out again and put the 180kmh original cluster back in.
A couple of years later I have a different AW SC and Malcolm has been immensely helpful and fitted the 240kmh speedo with a frequency divider as described in his post just earlier on this thread. The wiring was done only on the speedo (no cutting the loom) so that the speedo can be fitted to any AW SC to eliminate the J-spec 180kmh speed cut. Here is a link to the build of the thing in case anyone is looking for more info. And eventually I expect I'll be able to explain how it worked out too.
http://mr2.org.nz/phpbb3/viewtopic.php? ... 96#p133096
#8^) Charlie the certified Westie
Retired - President 2012 - 2018
Retired - Committee Member 2009 - 2018
Retired - Auckland Area Coordinator 2009 - 2018
Retired - Webmaster, Forum Host & Admin 2010 - 2018 - Now it's mknz
Financial Club Member since 2004 and thanks to *84vvt and co-conspirators, Life Member since April 2017
100+ MR2OCNZ runs and counting... When going hard, good rubber's your best protection against unwanted accidents. Buy good tyres!
When you're nearing the end of the drag-strip and you have no 'chute, you may as well keep your foot to the floor... Live life. There ain't no second pass.
Retired - President 2012 - 2018
Retired - Committee Member 2009 - 2018
Retired - Auckland Area Coordinator 2009 - 2018
Retired - Webmaster, Forum Host & Admin 2010 - 2018 - Now it's mknz
Financial Club Member since 2004 and thanks to *84vvt and co-conspirators, Life Member since April 2017
100+ MR2OCNZ runs and counting... When going hard, good rubber's your best protection against unwanted accidents. Buy good tyres!
When you're nearing the end of the drag-strip and you have no 'chute, you may as well keep your foot to the floor... Live life. There ain't no second pass.
- MR2GUY
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:10 pm
- Stomping Ground: Auckland
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Cameron
Re: Removing the 185kmh speed limiter
I never knew the AW had a limiter, i've definitely been over 190...