Suspension upgrade recommendations needed

[tw2]

Sounds like a beaten to death topic but I couldn't really find what I was after searching on the forums. I have decided on 92 springs (which I have in the garage) and of course against coilovers.

I am considering the koni's rather than excelG stock replacements, the price is the main issue but there really doesn't seem to be any other options now that the bilsteins are so much more expensive.

I am also having trouble deciding on whether to upgrade swaybars or not. My goals are comfort and good handling on our often totally rubbish roads. No track work, no excessive lowering. I have read the swaybars can sometimes cause excessive feedback and pulling due to the links being attached to the strut rather than a suspension arm. Having a manual rack would exacerbate this. My only complaint with the current handling is a bit too much body roll, it is all stock (probably original struts) with prothane bushes, all new links and ball joints.

Any suggestions? Just koni's and whiteline? Leave as is?

[GDII]

Sounds like you have done a bit of research. If you want comfort you need OEM springs, dampers and 15" tyres.

Koni has more aggressive damping for stiffer springs and work better for lowered cars due to the shorter stroke and designed to work at the lower range vs OEM dampers. But they are adjustable so can be set to soft too.
For the price of Koni or Bilstein HD you are only $100 or so over the OEM Bilstein blacks but a lot more over the KYB replacements.

Swaybars do help with body roll quite a bit but do have their downsides for the road. At least the Whitelines are adjustable to tweak the way the car drives. LSD is almost a must when you put these on with lowering springs. At least in my experience I have traction issues on bumpy roads and tight corners.

[tw2]

KYB replacements are $500 for all four from BNT. Koni $1400 I guess and the Bilstein yellow are probably slightly more even. It's hard to know if it is worth it. The US guys seem to really like the koni's on the soft settings for autoX and street driving, some of them are on stock springs too. My car will obviously be lower but still at stock 92+ levels. Maybe some Easter sales can help me decide.

I am worried our roads are too crap to have stiffer swaybars. A lot of the fun tight backroad corners have surprise corrugated surfaces or just totally neglected top seal, whitelines at their softest may be ok but maybe stock would be the safest, or maybe there is plenty of compliance with stock springs and aftermarket swaybars anyway.

[mickeyduck]

Our 92 (the lads' trainer wheels) has original suspension with Bilsteins that were new when we bought the car maybe 5 or 6 years ago. Excellent ride, brilliant handling.

[GDII]

Swaybars do help the body roll as I ran OEM suspension with the bars before I went to TRD springs but springs work even better than swaybars alone.

Unfortunately with 30 year old tech trying to reduce body roll on these old cars only makes them stiff. It's not like new cars that have very little roll but still have very compliant rides.

I run my bars at soft in the rear and medium at the front. It gives the car a more neutral feel but I also have the 92+ subframe and an interesting wheel alignment that hates bumps. It's the Autocross alignment which is fine on a race track but for road driving it's not ideal. I want to go back to an OEM alignment to see if it stops the bump steer. The bars might have something to do with this as when I changed the links the car felt a bit nicer but didn't solve the problem.

[thelinuxwarrior]

We had whiteline sway bars on our 2kcup car (when they were allowed).
We use to run the rear stiffer (medium setting) and the front soft - would make for a pretty balanced car, ideally I would of liked a little bit more oversteer.

Running the back on soft put shit loads of understeer into the car, we ran that setup once in the rain on track.
While it was safe and comfortable to drive is was also pretty slow - had trouble with turn in.

Running with the swaybars was a little faster, however I reckon to develop it more with the whitelines we would of needed to be looking at our tyres, springs, shocks.
As another example, after doing a back to back 30min session with changing between semi-slicks and Z2s, the car was awful under brakes with the semi slicks. Not enough anti-drive or needed stiffer springs at the front. Car was diving too much under brakes taking too much weight off the rear - makes for a very light backend during turn-in.
Everything needs to work together.

On the road if you are still on 15 inch tyres, lowering springs (something other that tein which drop the car stupid low) and excel-G shocks are a good match.
Its what we run in our 2kcup car doing 1.20s at Hamptons.

Konis are good, however you need to check your rates and see if they match the springs you are going to get.
The single way adjustable ones are normally only rebound adjustable, you would want to check the rates (or at least others feedback) on if the bound is to aggressive.

I've never noticed swaybars unless you are pushing the car at the limit of grip. If you are hitting a grip limit on the road I would be leaning more towards a cheap tyre (which stiffening up the car isn't going to help) or driving way to quick on the road. Swaybars allow you to move the grip around - aiming to achieve a more balanced car, but I would be surprised if this could be reached on the road even in a "spirited" driving situation.

Just my 2c

[mickeyduck]

I once tried an SW rear sway bar in my AW Shane. I discovered that it was real flat and fast through corners, with great turn in, but made for snap oversteer when really pushed. Something that does NOT normally happen in an AW with good tyres. Put the standard rear bar back in and the car was extremely progressive and controllable again when the back end started to let go. Just like an AW oughtta be.

Always thought it would have worked perfectly if the front bar had been a big grunty one to match. The standard (high and soft) suspension would have made for a real comfortable ride but big sway bars both ends would keep the car real flat through the corners.

Also, the higher you make the back end the more it will oversteer. I'm running the back of the red SW about 15mm higher than the front as measured at the jacking points on the chassis, to help it turn in. Helps soak up the back road bumps too of course with the extra weight in the back.

[tw2]

On the road if you are still on 15 inch tyres, lowering springs (something other that tein which drop the car stupid low) and excel-G shocks are a good match.
Its what we run in our 2kcup car doing 1.20s at Hamptons.

Konis are good, however you need to check your rates and see if they match the springs you are going to get.
The single way adjustable ones are normally only rebound adjustable, you would want to check the rates (or at least others feedback) on if the bound is to aggressive.

I am on 16" wheels and plan to put in the stock 92 spring to replace my stock 91 springs which I am guess will drop it an inch or so. Honestly I don't know enough to know whether the koni's would be suitable. I believe the stock springs are all linear but every aftermarket spring is progressive and I am guessing most people have experience with the aftermarket springs.

Our 92 (the lads' trainer wheels) has original suspension with Bilsteins that were new when we bought the car maybe 5 or 6 years ago. Excellent ride, brilliant handling.

I would definitely get the bilstein blacks if Toyota didn't increase their price substantially. Unfortunately they have pretty much priced them out of the market. Bilstein yellow's and koni's are only a tiny bit more. Yellows seem to be the most expensive and hardest to source.

I suspect I will end up getting koni's on softest settings with the 92 springs and stock swaybars. Any thoughts?

[GDII]

You probably won't get an inch drop on 92 springs. Even 94 springs don't go that low. I got 36mm on my TRD vs 90 springs. So you might get 10-15max.

Looking at 90 na vs 96 GT-S springs, they have pretty much just cut the coils to lower the car. Might be some other changes but if you compare your 91 to 92 you might see a similar thing.

There are quite a few different springs and they are different for NA vs Turbo versions.

[mickeyduck]

I would definitely get the bilstein blacks if Toyota didn't increase their price substantially. Unfortunately they have pretty much priced them out of the market.

Any thoughts?

Yep. If you haven't already, ask [email protected] for a price.

[tw2]

Yep. If you haven't already, ask [email protected] for a price.

Thanks, I have just sent off an email and I also got a price from Adens tires for comparison.

You probably won't get an inch drop on 92 springs. Even 94 springs don't go that low. I got 36mm on my TRD vs 90 springs. So you might get 10-15max.

Sounds good to me. Anything to eliminate the SUV look. As you know I got the springs from mrman and saw his stance with them which looks perfect.

[GDII]

Yep. If you haven't already, ask [email protected] for a price.

Thanks, I have just sent off an email and I also got a price from Adens tires for comparison.

You probably won't get an inch drop on 92 springs. Even 94 springs don't go that low. I got 36mm on my TRD vs 90 springs. So you might get 10-15max.

Sounds good to me. Anything to eliminate the SUV look. As you know I got the springs from mrman and saw his stance with them which looks perfect.

Nick's price will be the same crazy price as Mark's as they took these struts out of the line price items a little while ago.

Yeah making the MR2 slightly less SUV like will help. Before you swap over your springs place them side by side and see how the bottom of the coils are different. Based on my comparison of my 90 vs 96 (94-99 GT) all Toyota did was cut the coil shorter. Effectively providing us with cuties which I find hilarious. They may have changed the coil wire diameter and steel type but visually this is what I have observed.

[tw2]

Tough decisions, Nick can do a one off special of $1150 for the set of bilstein blacks, Koni are $1336 from adens. What would you guys pick?

[GDII]

Tough decisions, Nick can do a one off special of $1150 for the set of bilstein blacks, Koni are $1336 from adens. What would you guys pick?

I'd pick Konis at that price. Remember Konis are inserts so make sure you have the ability to use them. Bilstien Blacks are welded shut so not as easy to use those housings. Yours being a 91 should have screw in inserts but after almost 30 years they may not be OEM. The above information is for others reading this to provide some clarity.

[tw2]

Tough decisions, Nick can do a one off special of $1150 for the set of bilstein blacks, Koni are $1336 from adens. What would you guys pick?

I'd pick Konis at that price. Remember Konis are inserts so make sure you have the ability to use them. Bilstien Blacks are welded shut so not as easy to use those housings. Yours being a 91 should have screw in inserts but after almost 30 years they may not be OEM. The above information is for others reading this to provide some clarity.

Thanks, I just had a look before, confirmed I definitely have screw tops to all four housings. That could have been a bit awkward otherwise.