Engine modifications within NZ

[samsrsv]

I had heard the theory floating around that they didn't use the 2zz from factory as it would be stepping on Lotus's toes... Either way at least they made it some what easy to bolt the new one in!

I'll email Strange Workshop/Lynn Rogers and see if I can get a price guestimate to do the swap if all of the parts are provided.

Can anyone on here tell me what their experience has been like the MWR? Before I go giving them thousands for parts haha.

One other question, does anyone have a recommendation for aftermarket seats? I'm 6'1 and I find myself sliding out of the seats during spirited driving and my legs pretty much rest against the steering wheel. Would be nice to have a bit more bolstering and to be a tad lower in the car.

[Dell'orto]

Shit. So making decent NA power is going to cost like $1,000 for each 10hp gained? I've spent ages dreaming of staying NA and foaming over how Ferrari use NA engines but make a lot of high revving power but from reading this thread it seems I will have to either save a ton of money or reluctantly go turbo.

Basically, yes. The modern stuff is much harder to get power out of vs old tech, as the machining/casting from factory is already pretty good. Ferrari et al make big power, but they're high strung and need frequent expensive maintenance. I was told by a former Lamborghini owner that 20,000k on a Lambo is equivalent to 150,000k in a Japanese car

[Dell'orto]

I had heard the theory floating around that they didn't use the 2zz from factory as it would be stepping on Lotus's toes... Either way at least they made it some what easy to bolt the new one in!

I'll email Strange Workshop/Lynn Rogers and see if I can get a price guestimate to do the swap if all of the parts are provided.

As a very rough guideline, at the last workshop I worked in, where we did quite a few engine swaps, we'd typically quote $10k for a drive in drive out conversion. Some are more, some are less, but if you keep that figure in mind you wont get too much of a fright when you ask around

[samsrsv]

$10k does seem on the high side... I have read on forums that the swap can be done for $5 - 7k including required parts.

I guess this is due to most of the parts actually being interchangeable...

[Dell'orto]

Plenty of misinformation and half truths on forums, $10k is the actual figure I used to quote and charge for some engine conversions. As I said, some were less, some where more. But its a good guideline to work with

[JasonFriday13]

I spent $5k on my engine package (gen 3 3sgte and box, Link ECU, and clutch), and I installed it myself for free.

The labour cost is the killer, it's almost always higher than the cost of the parts. My $10k car would have cost $20k+ to build by a workshop.

[EssDub]

A 2ZZ swap is laughably cheap and easy to do, considering it was supposed to have been in there stock

And if anyone asks why you're not changing when the tacho goes red... just tell them thats where it loves it.

[Moksi]

Hi I just want to let you know the swap wasn't that hard, I just done it last year xmas time it take me 1 1/2 week to finish by myself, but it worth it, and I done it at my garage, make sure you have do your check list (parts), and I bought some parts from MWR from USA. Also I use my old 5 speed as well! People from spyderchat said better with 6 speed.
What you need is :
MWR plug and play wiring harness
MWR driver side engine bridge
MWR swap dip stick
2zz swap exhaust head
Toyota 2zzge ECU better early model without immobilzer

This is what you need to do the swap, but at the same time you can change :
New design lift bolts
Lighten flywheel and new clutch
Thermostat
And have a good clean before install the 2zz in!
Make sure clean the throttle body and IAC valve!
Moksi

[MIKEP]

For Swampy" Ya cant make a silk purse from a Pigs ear but ya can make a reasonable handbag" Don't loose all hope with N/As . It is possible to go down an reasonably priced route and make your car a lot more drivable and get some good gains in power. ECU remapping or even a "Piggyback Chip". See link here http://xtremetuning.co.nz/technicalitie ... g-methods/. That combined with a "bolt on exhaust solution and a bit of head work will give you some good reasonably priced gains.

Now before I cause a Sh**t storm . I am going to qualify that . . The cost of a remapped ECU is around 600 and a piggyback chip around 400. The great benefit is you can make your car "fit you " better and dependant on what you want from it the money is well spent. I run a piggy back chip on my SW20 and a set of balanced extractors and the car is so much better as a daily and revs better for my driving style . I think it has more power but I haven't dyno'd it since I did it. I will probably get the head flowed at some stage and may even lighten my flywheel . All these things are relatively easy and aren't big bucks compared to what you gain.

I run a remapped ECU on our Honda Civic non Vtec speedway car and it has made a huge difference . The power band is where I want it and the car is a lot faster between 4-5500 revs which is what I asked the guys to do when they remapped the ECU.

Don't be scared to go down the bolt on route for performance but remember its a very personal choice . Whats good for you may not be good for others . The gain wont be huge but you should come out of it with a car that performs better for you and without spending thousands on a 30 year old vehicle.

Just my 2c worth.

[GDII]

@Swampy

To stay NA can be good but the costs are higher to get good gains as mentioned elsewhere. Nothing to say you have to stick with a Toyota engine. If you want to remap a Toyota ECU, good luck, you can't, at least with the older ones. Far better to get a stand alone ECU for the job.

A 2GR-FE will give good gains for power and torque but doesn't rev that high. You could build a high reving BEAMS GEN4 3SGE, that would be really cool.

In the end it's up to you to choose what you want to do get extra power and driveabilty. There is information out there and people with experience you might share their knowledge to help you achieve your goals.

[Swampy]

Cheers guys for that.

Instead of a re-map, would buying a G4 and tune be around 2x the cost of that? I'm very ignorant of this stuff, having only seen haltech videos on Mightycarmods and their YT channel, but have heard that Link G4 are similar if not better and cheaper. Cheapest Haltech is around 700 AUD IIRC.

I'd love 250-300hp that is high revving and sounds the business, IMO I'd enjoy that more than a turbocharged 250-300hp but I would expect to be paying a lot more to get there via the N/A route.

[JasonFriday13]

If you do just an ecu on a N/A engine, you probably won't get much more out of it, maybe a few kw depending on how bad the stock ecu is (I've seen the difference first hand). There is a better gain doing it on a turbo engine, as they all tend to run a bit rich from the factory.

A Link G4 price, just have a look on trademe (usually somewhere around $1900). Dyno tune price, usually between $600 - $1000 depending on engine setup. Then add the price of the block and head work as well, which usually goes over $1000.

Now you can see why turbo power is cheaper than N/A power when your modifying it. Here is my question: can you build an N/A engine package that has 200kw for $4200? (figures are based off my turbo engine build).

[flying_wedge]

Not quite apples with apples comparison - you'd still need the same ECU, same cost tune and same base block and engine for any real power upgrade with a turbo motor.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that you'll get a 2 or 3 hp gain with a turbo build compared with a 1 hp gain on an n/a build for the same given money; but the ~$3500 for ECU, wiring, tune applies really as a base cost for any build seeing ~30% power gains over stock.
Of course you could do it cheaper with a MS and wire it yourself and road tune it yourself on your current motor for $800...
Staring with a 2zz, 3sge BEAMS, K20, etc you'd still be well short of 200kw for $4200 building n/a.

Having driven in some decent turbo powered cars, my preference is still a high revving n/a. Their relative lightness, willingness to rev, response, noise, and the way they drive is just as big if not a bigger drawcard than the surge of power and whooshy noises a turbo gives.

But then I have sunk some time and money into a high powered 2zz that would have seen double the power figures if I chose the turbo route, so I might be biased

[Alsw20]

250-300 n/a horsepower?

Fit 2gr and e153 turbo gearbox. Done.

Modifying a 3SGE to that horsepower and staying n/a? Why would you want to spend twenty times the value of your car to make it undriveable?

[JasonFriday13]

Yeah, 2gr-fe is about the only option. The rev limits on those are pretty low, stock it's 6500rpm. I also love high revving engines, but for the price required to get any decent power out of them is a bit, well, over the top. That's why I went turbo instead of a built N/A (mine does have N/A cams in it so the torque curve looks more like an N/A engine). If money wasn't an issue, then hands down I would take the built N/A (they sound awesome don't they ).