flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

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flying_wedge
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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by flying_wedge »

Knew it would happen one day, but front engine mount cracked - Easter Friday drive came to an end a bit quicker than expected. Nut no longer captive, and visible 1" cracks and fatige that could be seen with the engine weight for another inch at least.
Will weld up with a Matrix Garage reinforcement plate that will be on a plane shortly. Possibly due to poly bushing in front/rear engine mounts? Possibly due to hard driving, especially cut up Chch roads? Possibly just due to age and general wear? Who knows.
2015-04-03 10.57.05.jpg
Not being able to make use of the nice Easter weather for more driving, I finally got a into g and fixed the captive c-pillar trim bolts with Plexus MA300 which Malcolm pointed me to last year - seriously the best adhesive I have come across!
Gave it a wash as well, these are a bi-yearly event!! Fitted light bezels too afterwards.
2015-04-05 16.11.16.jpg
2015-03-29 15.51.56.jpg
2015-03-29 15.50.59.jpg
2015-03-29 15.51.33.jpg

** edited to keep photo links intact
Last edited by flying_wedge on Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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flying_wedge
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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by flying_wedge »

Alright.
Time for an update. Apologies for wall of text. I normally over-illustrate my posts, but this one will be an exception!

Been thinking about the next step for the wedge and more specifically the 2zz for a while. What I plan to do is address some of the weaknesses of the 2zz, and make it a bit more fun to drive = more power. It is already a hoot to drive especially up in the revs, but you can never make too much power right? Especially if there is more power under the curve across the whole RPM range!
This is not going to be an all out NA or turbo build - sure it’s only my weekend warrior car at the moment, but it needs to be able to assume daily driving duties should the need arise. Track days are a must too.
Never ideal building a car and motor suit two different applications as this means compromises somewhere along the way, but hey that’s just the way it goes sometimes.
Engine wise, this means trying to get a bit more power and torque down low as well as reinforcing its natural tendency for peaky power.
Well documented weaknesses of the 2zz and limitations for my current (and future!) power aspirations tend to be:

- Oil pump
- Oil ban and baffling
- Valves
- Valve springs
- Intake manifold


Oil pump - The 2zzge is known to explode an oil pump with a money shift. The oil pump is sintered iron, so is brittle and not as strong as it could have been stock. Toyota, why you make an ‘economy’ piece on a performance engine?? There are CNC milled replacement units available either as just the gear set or a replacement pre-assembled oil pump with the stronger gears.

Oil pan and baffling - I have addressed this with the BOE oil pan I installed a year back, and is still one of the best if not the best oil pan for a 2zz without dropping 5k on a dry sump setup. Nice touch of the BOE aluminium pan over a Moreoso is the BOE can be left in place when dropping the motor – it can take the combined weight of engine and gearbox where the Moreoso aluminium sump you need to remove to save squashing it.
I will add a thermostatic (80 degrees opening) thermostatic oil sandwich plate and finally get around to installing the 9 row oil cooler that's sat unloved on a garage shelf now for years. With only a 9 row cooler and positioning this in the engine bay isn't going to net the best cooling possible, but it’s a beginning step I can always come back to and re-design and stick the cooler somewhere else or get a bigger one if it's not cutting it. I haven't seen temperatures over about 130 degrees on track yet, but even if this was 15 degrees less it will help with oil longevity and efficiency.

Valves and springs - It is known the stock springs and valves are weak points, and aren't up to the task of sustained high RPM, and it's not a good idea to drop in a set of aftermarket cams with stock springs due to coil bind. Replacing these with some 15% stiffer springs and stainless valves will remedy this and allow revving out to 9k+ which while isn't my primary focus it's definitely a bonus. Will be interesting with the stock tacho running out at 9k though, lets hope the tacho and speedo needles never meet each other in the middle….
An upgrade to the valvetrain will allow a drop in set of cams too which will give some more “hoorah” to this NA motor. A set of stainless flat faced valves instead of the recessed factory valves will see a minor bump in compression ratio from 11.5 to 11.8 as well.

Intake manifold - despite its apparent clean and efficient design with what looks like a well-shaped plenum and runners, the stock intake manifold is actually a major restriction to getting the best out of the motor. DDPR which is a race engineering company in the US which was founded from their design and build of a 2zz intake manifold that on a stock ECU with a 3" CAI saw 30whp at low RPM and 50whp gain at the lift transition of 6300 RPM – that’s pretty crazy for a bolt on!! With forced induction, the gains are even more impressive. Where do I sign up asap?!?!
DDPR have built some pretty swanky 2zz engines, check them out on facebook where there are some very nice pictures of a recently completed turbo build.



Now, I am aware the current motor I have makes 175whp which is very strong given it is rated 190 at the crank from factory; and is a pretty good all-round show compared with other stock, unopened 2zzge motors – one of the best I have seen with no mods except CAI and exhaust on stock ECU. Dyno plots here from these power runs are on some page here previous.

Not sure if my power goals are ambitious or reserved, but addressing the above weaknesses while addressing increased fuel flow with pump, rail, and injectors I am hoping for 220whp. On paper, this should be achievable. In addition to the reliability mods above, the plan for a bump in power and drivability will see:

- MWR Stage 3 cams
- Cosworth 0.38mm head gasket
- Head port
- Mechanical LSD install


Cams – with a higher flowing intake manifold and headwork for max airflow with stock sized valves, off the shelf cams should see decent power gains.

Stock 2zz cam specs:

Intake low-speed cam: 7.25mm lift, 228 deg duration
Intake high-speed cam: 11.2mm lift, 292 deg duration
Exhaust low-speed cam: 7.25mm lift, 228 deg duration
Exhaust high-speed cam: 10.0mm lift, 276 deg duration

MonkeyWrench Racing stage 3 cam specs:

Intake low-speed cam: 10.5mm lift, 276 deg duration
Intake high-speed cam: 12.3mm lift, 288 deg duration
Exhaust low-speed cam: 10.5mm lift, 272 deg duration
Exhaust high-speed cam: 12.1mm lift, 286 deg duration

The current changeover point from the low to high cam is the stock 6300rpm, but tuning the best possible power curve on both the low and high cams separately will show an intersect point as the best place to set the low to high cam changeover.

Headgasket – stock headgasket is 0.46mm. Using the Cosworth 0.38mm gasket will see a 0.2 bump in compression. Combined with the flat faced valves will net an increase from 11.5:1 to 12: 1 compression ratio. Will need to plastigauge (or bluetak-gauge :P) the valve to piston clearance to make sure its clearances are all happy with another ~1mm of lift, ~1mm slimmer headgasket, and (hopefully much less than) ~1mm head skim on tidy up.


Headport – Head will be going off to an AW11 owning mate, Tim, at Pine Engineering http://pine-engineering.co.nz/ for a “velocity port” and complete assembly.
Tim really knows his stuff, and gives the attention to detail and considered approach and has time for discussion about the engine/goals/build overall that a larger shop doesn’t necessarily do.
Keen to see how it turns out, and home much material he takes out of the ports.
It’s funny that a 2 minute conversation with Tim shows just how little I know about heads, airflow, valve and cam design, etc. A head port is definitely a job I am keen to leave to someone with the skills and experience.

LSD – hopefully all upgrades will see a decent net in whp. The wedge has been a bit of a YOLO car with its current power levels (You Only Leave One) and I have long thought about a Quaife, Kaaz or TRD helical LSD to upgrade. Could only be the 195 width tyres too though haha. It came up by way of a very generous gesture of another car nut that a TRD clutch-type LSD is now mine. Very low wear (effectively just been run in!) this will be a welcome upgrade. Can be setup 1.5 or 2 way.


Other supporting mods will be 440cc injectors, 190 lph fuel pump, enlarged billet fuel rail, new fuel filter and spark plugs, 3.5” intake piping, wideband oxy sensor.


Thoughts?

TL:DR == bunch of planned mods and parts for the head to hopefully put down 220whp in fine, naturally aspirated form.
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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by mknz »

Do it

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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by Statek »

I'm so buying a ticket to Chch when this build is ready :mrgreen:
1986 Toyota MR2 AW11 20v ST - SOLD
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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by JasonFriday13 »

^^ Same :D.
Jason Ross, current cars:
Project: 1990 SW20 GT, 1992+ brake swap, 1992+ subframe swap, 1996 Celica turbo engine swap, 1996 MR2 LSD gearbox swap, Caldina Turbo coil-on-plug ignition, Link G4 Storm, 161kw @ 10psi.
Daily: 2004 Toyota Vitz RS, 1.5L, 5sp
Tow rig: 2009 Camry, 2.4L, auto
Scrapped: 1989 SW20 GT, 1992 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car, donor, 1997 Toyota Tercel 3dr hatch, front crash, 1990 SW20, G-Limited, ex EssDub car, roll crashed, donor
Sold: 1987 AW11 Supercharged, 1991 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car

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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by MR2GUY »

have you ever considered going with an itb setup on the 2zz?

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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by flying_wedge »

I have, but would require much more work than the 0.2second increase in throttle response and any hp over the DDPR manifold it would net.
A difference between a 4age and the 2zz is intake and exhaust manifolds swap sides. So the intake plenum is just (5 - 8cm clearance to the firewall) behind your head. Looking at the few that have adapted the 20v itb's to fit the 2zz the stacks, adapter plate etc all together stick out further than the factory manifold, and then still need clear space for airflow.
It would also be harder to route cold air or fabricate an airbox to right behind the cabin firewall for the itb's to pickup.

Yes, I'm going to have to manipulate the firewall for the DDPR manifold, but this seems a more simple solution for flowing cold air and doesn't need a custom adapter made for itb's or as much mucking round to get running and idling right...

Would be a bit different I guess if it was an allout race car with roll cage where it would be possible to cut up or notch the chassis as needed to make things work and a bit more of a budget.
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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by flying_wedge »

And I have previously already done the second side vent on the passengers side specifically for the intake. Would be a shame to not put that good work to use 8)
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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by MR2GUY »

Ahhh right, yea it would be a hell of a tight Squeeze have always liked the 2zz as an engine, but upgrading it almost seems like too much hard work with the little amount of aftermarket parts. Your plan seems great, so I cant wait to see the progress on it

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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by Ash Kelly Barr »

flying_wedge wrote:Yes, I'm going to have to manipulate the firewall for the DDPR manifold
Nice choose of wording :wink:

Are you still using the factory throttle on the new manifold?

What's happening with the extractors? I remember you mentioning them last time?
Toyota motors:
Current - 89 AW11 factory manual SC
Sold - 74 Toyota Crown wagon (MS63), Holden 308, TH400 trans

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flying_wedge
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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by flying_wedge »

Ok.
Engine out.
2015-04-28 21.28.44.jpg
Through the hours of 0 degrees or below I work
2015-05-03 19.36.14.jpg
Beaut condition bores, shiny as a mirror...
2015-05-05 20.28.58.jpg
... except one of these things is not like the other
2015-05-05 20.28.50.jpg
Rest of the bore is ok. It's a clean, straight scratch, and juuuuust noticable with a finger nail. Hmmm.
Being a 2zz, there are a few special things about this engine from Toyota that is like none other they have produced. One of these traits are the Metal Matrix Reinforced (MMC) cylinder walls that can't be honed.
Discussed with an experienced builder of all things 2zz, it's not a show stopper... progress as planned.
The mini-project this time round is just about the head and intake, will come to the bottom end in a few years.

Head was dropped in to Tim for an intial planned 6 week turnaround. It is still with him after 10 :lol: Good things take time, it's not far now.
2015-05-11 19.38.26.jpg
Intake ports before:
2015-06-11 19.37.24.jpg
Intake ports during:
2015-06-18 20.11.13.jpg
A bit further along with a finer cut
2015-06-18 20.47.30.jpg
Todays update bought to you by the letter Z and the number 2



** edited to keep photo links intact
Last edited by flying_wedge on Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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flying_wedge
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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by flying_wedge »

Picked this up today.
Pretty stoked - its in great shape.
Can't wait to start reassembly. Will be putting things back a bit differently and adding a few bits and pieces as I go so it might be a bit slow and still probably a month or so off before turning it over for the first time, but all for the sake for not needing to hopefully pull the engine anytime in the near future!
11741106_864639806946674_2773353735645694679_o.jpg
Statek wrote:I'm so buying a ticket to Chch when this build is ready :mrgreen:
I'll hold you to that Kris :lol:
Just make it a one way ticket with your adub and enjoy what Christchurch doesn't have to offer :lol: :lol:
Ash Kelly Barr wrote:Nice choose of wording :wink:

Are you still using the factory throttle on the new manifold?

What's happening with the extractors? I remember you mentioning them last time?
Nah the extractors are fine. Just slightly mis-shaped at the flange for the port shape (larger by a few mm in some spots), but nothing that had Tim concerned for airflow.
Yah, will be a few weeks away and I will see just how much chopping I will need to do
Will be using aftermarket throttle. Will cover this in next update. It is a sexy CNC milled piece though 8)
Last edited by flying_wedge on Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by Ash Kelly Barr »

Good work man. That's some pretty impressive port work!
Can you ask him how he does the dimples? I take is he dimples then sands, then uses a cutting compound to get the final finish?

How much did it set you back for the valve seat job?
Toyota motors:
Current - 89 AW11 factory manual SC
Sold - 74 Toyota Crown wagon (MS63), Holden 308, TH400 trans

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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by Ash Kelly Barr »

Just a side note while I remember. I know TRIAL (tuning house) built a celica with a 1zz turbo. They bored it out to around 1980cc. I'm wondering if they are the same block but the 2zz has the sleeves and the 1zz doesn't then a 1zz block could be bored out with over size Pistons and a certain 2zz head bolted to it?
I know 1zz's can be found cheap out of early 2000's corollas

Edit: I see MWR do a darton sleeve to fit +3mm Pistons

2L 2zz, light weight Pistons, rods and a knife edge crank 13:1 :wink:
Toyota motors:
Current - 89 AW11 factory manual SC
Sold - 74 Toyota Crown wagon (MS63), Holden 308, TH400 trans

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flying_wedge
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Re: flying_wedge's 2zzge AW11

Post by flying_wedge »

Ash Kelly Barr wrote:Good work man. That's some pretty impressive port work!
Can you ask him how he does the dimples? I take is he dimples then sands, then uses a cutting compound to get the final finish?

How much did it set you back for the valve seat job?
He uses a pretty large reamer/burr and air tools, the burr is the size of my index finger, so possibly a 1/4 shank burr? He doesn't use a dremel - its too small and slow. Different burrs for start and finishing cuts. Dimples just a byproduct of the process.
The seats didn't need to be cut - they are a darn good and perfect size and angle from factory. As the supertech replacement valves wern't oversized there was no reason to mess up the seats. Oversized valves in a 2zz are only needed for serious forced induction power.
Clearance of valve and where the valve sits in the seat was bang on. Probably pretty normal for building a head, but each valve done for each seat and kept as a pair.
Ash Kelly Barr wrote:Just a side note while I remember. I know TRIAL (tuning house) built a celica with a 1zz turbo. They bored it out to around 1980cc. I'm wondering if they are the same block but the 2zz has the sleeves and the 1zz doesn't then a 1zz block could be bored out with over size Pistons and a certain 2zz head bolted to it?
I know 1zz's can be found cheap out of early 2000's corollas

Edit: I see MWR do a darton sleeve to fit +3mm Pistons

2L 2zz, light weight Pistons, rods and a knife edge crank 13:1 :wink:
Ha, that's part of the plan, would be a few years away for a bottom end though. 13:1 would be as far as I would probably want to go on pump gas with a decent knock detector.
Not sure if I would go for a stroker to 1.9 or 2.0l – sure there are decent gains in torque where it is otherwise lacking with this motor, but you compromise the ability to rev it out which I do enjoy a whole lot.

A few new head pics, befores and the final shots after:
2015-07-18 16.21.26-4.jpg
2015-07-18 16.21.26-3.jpg
2015-06-11 19.38.47-1.jpg
2015-07-18 16.37.07-1.jpg
2015-07-18 16.34.08-4.jpg
2015-07-18 16.34.08-3.jpg
2015-07-22 19.22.18.jpg
Would rate Tim's work at Pine - if you are after some quality craftsmanship and a serious can-do attitude hit him up. Take a look at some of his work on Facebook looking for Pine Engineering.
Proof will be in the pudding though, will get it together and a dyno one day soon...


** edited to keep photo links intact
Last edited by flying_wedge on Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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