Mickeyduck's machines

[85AW20v]

Have you checked your temp sensors to make sure they're all working OK? Isn't one of them for cold start? If it's crook, the ECU could be adding extra fuel thinking the engine is still cold....

See ya
Simon

[mickeyduck]

Good point Simon. OK, back to the BGB to read up on cold start stuff...

I will put the pulley back to bog standard first though so at least if nothing else I can assure myself the ignition timing is correct.

I think I'll do that first and then look at the sensor question afterwards if I can still smell fuel.

Thanks for the idea.

[mickeyduck]

Well today I pulled the 17 lb pulley off, looked at putting a standard one on and realised that to fit the timing pointer I would have to remove the alternator, its bracket and the water pump pulley. Meh.

So I put a split pin where the timing pointer should be and took a good look from above. I found that using the front edge of the water pump pulley instead of the timing pointer is pretty-much dead on.

So I fitted my trusty old 14 lb pulley and set the timing to exactly 15 degrees at 800 rpm without the check terminals bridged.

Took it for a blat around the local lifestyle blocks and she seems to be running nicely. No smell of gas, pulls ok, temperature good...

I'll leave it at that for now and see how it runs. Will give it a good thrashing between now and the AGM mission...

As an aside, I measured the pulleys' diameter to the outside of their grooved ridges.

Standard 8 to 10 lb boost pulley = 144 mm
14 lb = 160 mm
17 lb = 170 mm

From memory I think folk tend to refer to the 170 mm as a 175 mm but I'm measuring the grooved bit not the outer cos all it does is help keep the belt on. I do know there's no way to fit a bigger one cos it'd be physically impossible unless other things get altered too.

For anyone's info too - standard pulley requires a 940 mm belt, 160 mm pulley requires a 965 mm belt, a 170 mm pulley requires a 970 mm belt. See my earlier post on this thread regards idler bearing.

Can't wait for this hill-climb:

Here's one of my favourite videos, an AW with almost 400 hp:

[85AW20v]

Hey Charlie. How come the biggest pulley has the shortest belt length? I sure it'll be a typo....

See ya
Simon

[JasonFriday13]

You picked up on it first lol.

[mickeyduck]

Fixed.

Like Hendrix said, if 6 were 9...

[mickeyduck]

Took the AW to Hampton's today.

Ran fine except that when I boost it, I can smell a little unburnt gas. Only a teeny wee bit but it still concerns me.

Further investigation tomorrow.

I will fit a new copper washer (no tangs so will need to centralise it) and see what happens.

Ideally I might leave the ignition timing as is and fit the 17 lb pulley again. Just need it to run right, not leak fuel etc. We'll see.

Gotta be right for Taupo anyway eh.

[mickeyduck]

No evidence of fuel leaking. As the gas smell only occurs under boost, and because it was worse with the 17 lb pulley, and because it goes away with more advanced timing, I'm concluding it is simply due to the AFM making the ECU over-fuel a bit. So I've left the 14 lb pulley on there for now and advanced the ignition timing a wee bit more. See how it goes... Just tweak it a little until it's as good as can be I guess.

Anyway today I have discovered that the rear suspension arms (the official BGB term for the tie rods) had some serious play in them and that must have been contributing to the back end feeling kinda nervous... so I replaced them with Malcolm's very nicely made stainless jobs.

First I got a tape measure and inserted its tang end thing into a slender groove in the left rear tyre, at the height of the tie rod end. Then measured to the same point on the right tyre.

Then I removed the right tyre, removed the tie rod and set it on the bench.

I took Malcolm's Vanilla Components tie rod and wound each end in until it didn't want to travel any more, and set the lock nut at that position.

I then unwound each end until it fell off. The inner end (not the outer ball-joint end) had the least thread, so I set it one turn on. Then I measured from the lock nut to the inner face of the end joint and it was 19mm. So I wound the ball-joint (outer) end on until it too was 19mm gap between its inner face and the lock nut.

OK, so now I can place it flat on the bench next to the old one, and wind the centre section so it pulls in each end evenly and ends up with the same amount of adjustment on each end.

So I did that. I put a bolt through both old and new tie rods' inner ends, and adjusted the new one until the outer's threaded ball joint thing matched the old one.

Then I fitted the new rod to the car, refitted the wheel and checked the measurement with my tape measure. Adjusted the tie rod a weeny bit and locked it where the measurement was within a mm of before. Then I did the same deal all over again on the other side.

The only thing I'm not entirely happy with is the way the inner end of the rods no longer has a single solid chunk of tubing to take the hit if I hit a really bad pot hole. I'm concerned that the bolt may bend if I do hit a nasty hole in the road - and goodness knows there are enough of those out in the back-blocks! If the bolt did bend there's a good chance I would leave the road out of control. So I'll ask Malcolm to make up some heavy bushes with much thicker outer diameter to replace the ones he's supplied. If they have an outer diameter matching the inner ball joint's casing (yellow arrows) then at least there'd be much reduced bend likely where that bolt is concerned, so a reduced risk of total disaster. In all other respects those tie rods are extremely well built.

Note - the wee seals in the photo below squash flat when the blot is done up.

As for the fueling / timing issue, if I can't get it nailed I'll just put it back to bog standard and be done with it. That said, it was only just making a fuel smell yesterday and only when nailing it. We'll see.

I think I'll dedicate next weekend to ensuring there are no fuel leaks and no cold start related over-fueling problems, check it all out as per the BGB's EFI section.

[mickeyduck]

Tonight I had a look at whether there are any fuel leaks. As per the BGB:

Screen shot 2015-03-01 at 9.43.17 PM.png (124.62 KiB) Viewed 2451 times

No leaks. No smell of gas and no visible signs.

Takes me back to the over-fueling idea...

Next check: as Simon suggested, the cold start stuff.

[Mattaw11]

Has this still got the charcoal canister hooked up charlie for the tank breather

[mickeyduck]

No idea. What am I looking for Matt? Where? And why?

[85AW20v]

A black canister somewhere near your fuel filter on the firewall. Has something to do with the emission control stuff. Sometimes you can hear them buzzing a bit just when the motor is turned off. No idea what they really do! Got rid of mine years ago - not that I'm concerned about emissions of course.

See ya
Simon

[85AW20v]

Making bigger bushes isn't going to make any difference as the available load surface is only on the centre bush part of the rod end Malcolm has used. It would also stop any rotational movement of the eye which does need to happen on those arms. Think of the bolt as the sacrificial part - much easier to replace the bolt than the whole arm. As an experiment, try bending a bolt of that size and grade mounted the same way - I'd almost bet you'd never do it.

Forces from a pothole hit will be upwards pivoting on the front arm mount, not backwards as the front arm is holding everything in place and for that reason is much bigger construction than the toe arm you've replaced.

See ya
Simon

[mickeyduck]

I do get your logic Simon.

However we wrecked an AW a couple of years ago that had the right rear wheel bent as described, wheel bent around from a hit, pivoted on the ball joint.

It's the fact that these are basically front wheel drive (steering) joints transplanted to the rear, and the tie rod is the only thing stopping that steering joint from changing direction if it encounters a large enough force, by pivoting around the ball joint. The leading arm has no bearing upon its ability to do that.

If you look at the end of a factory tie rod you'd need to shear the bolt or bend the heck outta the rod (actually the usual outcome is a bent rod - I have a couple here).

Yes it would take huge force to bend that bolt but if it ever happens I'd rather it could only bend a few mm and be controllable rather than bend a few cm and send me off the road. Wider bushes would simply restrict the amount of bending the bolt would be able to do, and make that end of the rod behave more as a factory one does with its one heavy bush making the only weak point at that joint a shear of the bolt (a very unlikely outcome especially with the rubber bush damping the blow - it is no longer able to soften the hit on that bolt as it's not there anymore) or bending of the subframe (which I have seen along with a bent tie rod).

Looking closely at the inner end of the rods, a wider bush would still allow for some movement of the joint - at least as much as the factory rubber bushing - while still ensuring the bolt could only bend a small amount if it took a huge hit.

I've had that car completely airborne after a sharp bump at speed and it has very hard suspension...

This is all only a theory in my head but my life and that of my passenger (son or wife) are at stake so bugger it I'd rather trust my instinct and err on the side of caution eh. Especially as I saw that other AW's munted rear suspension. Though as I said I do understand your reasoning in light of the suspension design and believe me I have a great deal of respect for your insights. Your advice is always much appreciated mate.

And Malcolm's engineering skills are superb. But this one thing I would change.

Screen shot 2015-03-03 at 11.58.04 PM.png (255.42 KiB) Viewed 2410 times

[Ash Kelly Barr]

Interesting stuff
When I put twosRus rear ties in I had to get new bolts as the oem ones in there where to thin where the solid bush sat and had about 3 or more mm play.
Got new bolts with the unthreaded part bigger but same thread size to fit the chassis mount nut.
I assume twosRus did this as to get it over the thread but the oem bolts inside unthreaded bit is the same as the inside diameter of the thread. Leaving the unthreaded part with as much play as the thread depth

Also ive always wondered what that buzzing noise was now I know! Cheers Simon