89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

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SkweekyEvil
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89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by SkweekyEvil »

Heya All

I have a 89 S/C AW11, since I bought it almost 3 years ago now I have been working on it (or waiting for parts). For all this time I have some "progress" to show hahaha. First its important that you know that when I bought this car i had no knowledge of cars... seriously I didn't know how to change an oil filter (or where the sump bolt is). This pretty much sum's me up at the time. The car is an endless sauce of stories and trouble but never fails to have a smile on my face by the end of the day. I bought it down in Parmy and my god has it been hard to get it clear of the mistreatment by previous owners. I live in Auckland and saw the car on trade me for $2000 on a Friday, started hassling my mates to road-trip down with me to get the cars home. Didn't have much luck till I called the mate i should have prolly called first (by now it was midnight) and he was "I'll see you in 20 min". So we cannon-balled down and slept in my Corolla (now decided) to sleep in the car park for three hours out-side a Bunnings before heading over to view the car at 8:30. Got to the car and it was an MR2 AW11 for 2 grand, was a bit of a mess but was 2G and I was poor so money was exchanged and we were back on the road. That trip I was pretty sure I loved the car, watching my mate drive as he overtook me and a turbo Legacy (any Legacy with GT badge is turbo) through the Desert Road like we were sitting still.

Looked shabby when I got it (still looks shabby). There were 14 tacky stickers all over it (as if there are stickers that aren't tacky, ha!), the seats were worn, the PO was a smoker, a cripple (so there were hand controls in it), and at some point someone had decided that the car needed new paint and using from what i can tell a paint brush to do this... As well as this it was an auto and a few other things that don't come to mind immediately.

So i knew that the first task was to get a manual gearbox in it. Short story is it took me 5 gearbox's to finally make it work! First i got a 6 speed 4AGE box but the shifter linkages are on the wrong side and it was $450 to have the leads extended, I just decided to buy my second gearbox. Second was a n/a AW11 box from Spartan auto, drive shafts would not fit from the auto box. So i imported one from Japan (which took MONTHS!). This was the right box BUT as of course it would be our beloved cars have different drive shafts for Auto S/C, Manual S/C, and N/A gearbox. i was ready to spit tacks but instead just bout a full manual conversion set from CHCH for $1300 bucks plus shipping. So smacked in the axles and pulled it all back together and turned the key!!!... Nothing happened. Why would it? I mean i should have known that it wasn't gonna "just work". So after working out how to trick the automatic ECU into thinking that it was in park to let the car start i tried again. Still nothing. Luckily for me one of my mates loves Alfa Romaos making him an electrical fault expert given the shoddy electronics in Alfa's. The cable that ran from the positive on the battery to the starter was totally rotted out with corrosion and with a new cable the car roared into life without crash starting :twisted: . But the troubles of the manual conversion weren't over! There was no third gear... This was an easy fix though as you can just adjust the linkages at the gear stick and it worked. (If you ever attempt a conversion and like me have not ever worked on a car before i recommend that you PM me for a list of what you need, if i were to do it again i could do it in a weekend, seriously i have only said a couple of the issues i ran into).

So now i had a Manual S/C AW11. Next on my build agenda was to get the car road legal and improve handling and general "Drivibility". Which I don't think is a word but to me it means "anything that makes the car different without modifying the engine or drive line". This includes seats, suspension, steering wheel, short shifter, steering rack ect. So i set to work buying things from a new friend "2sRUS". Those guys are heroes. Suspension bushes, tie rods, short shifter, brass shifter bushes that stuff. At the same time i went to Barry Manon and bought a set of AW11 Coilovers. It is important to mention at this point that there were some issues with MRP, Barry though is very easy to deal with and a great help so despite the complications i would still recommend dealing with these guys as the have a good product. Put everything in (eventually) and went for cert with Clint Field. Once again i recommend Clint. He's a pretty cool guy and will give you an honest cert if your cars safe. The last place that I would recommend is TTT Auto and Tim who works there for any rust work (or any work seriously this guy is onto it for making cars go fast without the enormous price tag, best of all though is that he is genuinely passionate about cars and particularly Toyota's).

So now got WOF, Reg and CERT!!!! Little car is legal! List of mods atm is Coil Overs, Bucket Seats, Manual G/box, removed hand controls, moved battery to front, short shifter, replace (most) suspension bushes, Rear Tie rod ends, braided break lines, removed A/C, Boost Gauge, fixed a ton of rust (and still more to find).

Next stage will be a new engine. This took a lot of thinking, a LOT. When I got the car I i planned to swap in a 3SGTE because i liked that it was the engine intended in the SW20. The advantages to this swap would be more torque, more HP with the disadvantage of more weight and a longer stroke cause a much less revvy engine. I want a revvy (and responsive responsive) engine but i don't want a Honduh. So other options as i saw it was 4AGE, 7AGE, 5SGTE (because torque would be worth it). So 4AGE is cheap with little work (comparatively) with the lowest displacement and best reving :twisted: 7AGE is awesome in concept. It is a true TUNERS engine in my mind, but really its only 200cc over the 4AGE and looses the revvyness that is really most central to my build concept. 5SGTE man this would just be a laugh. I would want it to rev as i go past people and make them think what the F@#K is in that little car. Also dat TORQUE! Ironically after months thinking about it and being sure of a different option being the best every week i finally settled on a 4AGE Blacktop. Next decition was N/A S/C or +T. N/A is cool, i mean no-one does it these days! However even wringing the balls off it you can only make 250 HP out of a Blacktop (in before formula Atlantic only made 240HP talk to the top engine builders in the country and they will tell you the the 20v makes way better power than the 16v which could only make 240). An admirable power but that is at like 9000RPM and has about a 30 hour life span, I wanna be able to drive around town so even a more mild N/A build will be a little weak on power. S/C was my next favorite choice, once again no-one does it any more! Especially on low displacement engines like the 4AGE. So the research commenced. There are actually 3 very different types of S/C (scroll type too but doesn't count), Roots type, Screw type and Centrifugal S/C. Roots type is good for Drag racing, but creates too much heat to be practical in circuit racing (or street power). Screw Typetype is the most "super-chargery super charger. By this i mean that this will give you like 12psi of boost at 1500RPM, which sounds MAAAAAAD! but think about it a little more. That's pretty sweet, 4AGE has good up top in N/A form and with this is would be good all round right? Well not quite. This would give you WAY better low down, no argument there, but this type of supercharger has the biggest parasitic effect on the engine, what this means is that the higher you rev the S/C takes exponentially more power to keep up causing the engine to actually be weaker that if it didn't have it, as well as heating your charge. Cool in theory but i would suspect a lot less exciting in execution :roll: . So centrifugal S/C then? Well, the centrifugal supercharger is actually a belt driven turbo. Sorry but it is. Its just a turbo that runs off the crank and isn't as good. (I will say though that it has the least parasitic effect of the S/C's, generates the least heat, and is able to create the most boost so is actually the best for a 4AGE but still... turbo is just better I'm not happy about it either!). So 4AGTE Blacktop? 4AGTE Blacktop! So i already have the engine and all the parts for a practice rebuild that will go into my Carib. Then rebuild the Carib engine with slightly better parts and more experience and pop that into the MR2, find a turbo and make up a manifold and work though turbos till i find one that suits. then cams to suit that turbo!
AW11 89 S/C - STOLEN (Destroyed)
AW11 84 N/A - Runner

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flying_wedge
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by flying_wedge »

Good read.
Did you (have you) thought about the zz family? 2zz-ge gives good power in stock form. 1zz-ge has good gains with turbocharging. Well, both work well with turbocharging, but if you wern't sticking to n/a then 1zz is the cheaper platform to start with, with ultimately similar power for a given $price bracket compared with the 2zz.
More modern than a blacktop, similar (1zz) or better (2zz) power than blacktop, aftermarket support, etc,etc.
Only one engine mount to make - the 3 gearbox ones fit right up to the AW11 mounts, similar wiring changes as blacktop swap.

Food for thought.

20v does have good aftermarket support these days too though, it is pretty straight forward to buy a bunch of off the shelf parts from Barry to give you a 20v built to a desired power level.

SkweekyEvil
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by SkweekyEvil »

The car when I got it, this kinda sum's it up as a messy heap (hasn't changed much just less Decepticons and Monster stickers (seriously it was crazy)
Manual conversion stuff

Got Re-sprayed rims and a wash (still messy)
Got Re-sprayed rims and a wash (still messy)
Attachments
Car when i got it
Car when i got it
Out with the old
Out with the old
Master Cylinder
Master Cylinder
AW11 89 S/C - STOLEN (Destroyed)
AW11 84 N/A - Runner

SkweekyEvil
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by SkweekyEvil »

This weekend has seen a new intake layout for the S/C MR2 as well as some custom gaskets in an attempt to fix a boost leak. As a frustrating aside I've also fixed the alternator that decided to break at 10 pm and leave me stranded 45 min from home :( . The reason that I wanted to shorten the intake, is that I suspected that shortening the intake would improve throttle response. My reasoning being there would be less air that needs to accelerate in order to get to the engine. The intake in the AW11's is ridiculously long (at least in the S/C models, not sure about N/A). The factory system has a nice K/N air box but no practical way to keep it with the amount of work I was willing to put into this. So to start off I removed the I/C followed by pulling out a WHOLE LOT of piping from the boot (as well as the carpet and sound dettening which revealed some pretty serious rust). Then I pulled out the AFM and looked at the engine bay for a while to get an idea of what I could do. I wanted to spin the metal 90* bend that goes into the S/C by 180*, and have the intake next the the little vent in the side of the chassis. However that looked like more work than I was willing to put into this engine given that I plan to swap it pretty soon for a Blacktop. So I went for a much more simplistic option! By unbolting the AFM and rotating the join just downstream of it I was able to angle it across the top of the gearbox, next I just put a pod filter on the end and BOOM! Shorter intake! This removed about 1.5M of intake piping and three 90* bends as well as keeping a consistent pipe diameter. Given the amount of work (and money) involved in this I was happy with the theoretical improvement (even if it not a cold air intake) so now just to test it out! I work on this car out at Beathells beach and there are some fun roads about there so after putting it though some twistys I had a opinion. What the ass dyno told me was something quite different to what I had hoped to get from this mod. Rather than any increase in response (which I thought I felt but not enough to think is was anything more than wistful thinking) was that it ran a LOT nicer towards redline. What I used to feel if I shifted at redline was a massive kick in the ass as I moved into the next gear. I believe that this kick was as the engine dropped back into peak torque, this opinion was backed up in my mind by the way that the car seemed to accelerate a lot slower if reved to redline (and past where the engine made most of its power) rather than shifting earlier at 5000 or so. Well now that the intake has been shortened there is no longer a kick when shifting from redline. So now I wasn't sure that torque had just been lost due to the hotter intake charge (given proximity to I/C and other hot stuff). So there is only one half way near strait away along the Beathells road from my place to the beach and I have made it my goal for a while now to get as fast as possible along this straight before breaking as late as possible, not the most reliable test but a test none the less. I was able to reach 15km faster along this straight, before breaking, with the new intake compared with my previous record. This is enough for me to believe there is a improvement from the mod :D
20140323_192154.jpg
Little hard to see with the I/C in but you get the idea :)
AW11 89 S/C - STOLEN (Destroyed)
AW11 84 N/A - Runner

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Ash Kelly Barr
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by Ash Kelly Barr »

I to thought this intake system was rediculus! I flipped my pipe on the throttle body around the other way and sat my AFM on the oil cap and got some bits to plumb a K&N in the actual side vent (with removal of the cooling fan) runs a lot better! I copyed this from "flying wedge" before he did his swop

As for response the reason the ZE's aren't is that the throttles so far away from the intake ports (takes longer for the air to reach the engine), thus why the black tops are responsive as hell with the ITB's
I have thought about putting and NA intake and throttle on to sort this, but like you say your planning to swop so probly isn't worth your time or coin

Seems the ZE's with sc12's have most of their punch between 3200-5000 just from what others have said and from driving mine.
Even with a slightly bigger pulley and 10psi mine still seems to run out of puff (no pun intended) after 5k

Gutted to hear about the rust to, hope it's not to major

Keep up on the thread!
Toyota motors:
Current - 89 AW11 factory manual SC
Sold - 74 Toyota Crown wagon (MS63), Holden 308, TH400 trans

SkweekyEvil
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by SkweekyEvil »

Over that last couple of weeks I have taught myself (almost) how to totally recondition an engine - from removal, to stripping, to re-assembly, to slammin' it right back where it came from. This had had the usual curve balls that can be expected from working on cars even our beloved Toyota's.
The Plan: Practice rebuilding the 4AGE Blacktop that I had spare and swap it into my daily driver (a factory Blacktop Carib) that’s engine was well 'loved' by the previous owner. So I was going to strip back the engine and rebuild it, then once complete pull the engine from the Carib and replace it with the freshly rebuilt engine.
The Story: So this whole process began two weeks ago when my company ran out of work and I was asked to take annual leave. I had bought myself an engine stand and had previously almost stripped a 4AGE small port so had some knowledge of what I was up against. Namely that I would need a socket set other than my trusty (read: cheap) Barco set that has served me until now. Waitemata Hydraulics has a really good sale on at the moment so I went and bought two nice 12 point King Tony socket sets as well as a 1/2 inch and 3/8ths torque wrench. I pulled then engine apart pretty easily with this - the only trouble being in removing the bolt that holds the pully on the end of the crank shaft which usually requires a Special Service Tool. I however thought to myself when confronted with this problem; "what would Clarkson do". The answer obviously was "use a hammer" but cunningly I used the handle to jam the crank in place while I released the 140NM bolt. So now the engine was apart the block, crank, flywheel, clutch plate, rods and pistons were taken to North Shore Engine Re-conditioners for cleaning and milling. The bores were good so just needed a hone but the crank shaft was [Expletive Deleted] due to a big end having been run, and also needed the con rod touched up a bit. Next it was down to STA to get rings, cam belt, gasket sets and head bolts. Finally got all the pieces back together (eventually had all the right ones, having been given the wrong cam belt and piston rings - hint to the wise don't deal with the cute blonde at STA, shes as dumb as she is good looking). Reassembled the engine out at Bethells with no internet only the very useful http://www.locost7.info/mirror/4age_blacktop.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; downloaded onto my phone. Teaching myself how to put on the timing belt proved scary (given that this idiot made not marks on the belt at all) but after drawing lots of pictures for myself and copying the other engine once I had pulled it out I was satisfied that my valves were safe :D . Now the engine was done, it was struggled back in with my grandfather’s old engine hoist and many a surly word directed at nuts, bolts, engine mounts and god :P Engine back in and everything plugged in and turn the key..... CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK *&%$#@! neutral. So after lots of fiddling and mucking about the decision was made to crash start it. AND IT STARTED!!! Only it sounded like shit. Timing is off somewhere but I can't work it out. And bloody starter is not being as helpful as it was in my head either (what with the CLICK CLICK CLICK and all)

Conclusion: I'm kinda proud but certainly not as head swollen as my not-so-helpful father predicted I would be (probably fair enough assumption by him though). It is a little frustrating because I'm just not sure how to proceed from here...

The whole purpose for this was really to put an engine in a car that is supposed to have it before trying to put the same engine in one that shouldn't from factory (this being my MR2 Beasty) Anyone got any ideas or suggestions?
AW11 89 S/C - STOLEN (Destroyed)
AW11 84 N/A - Runner

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EssDub
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by EssDub »

23031572.jpg
23031572.jpg (76.93 KiB) Viewed 3895 times
Srsly.

Please sort out your posts before people's brains start exploding from trying to read it O.o

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85AW20v
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by 85AW20v »

If you've used the VVT pulley nut to turn the motor you could have got the timing out as the pulley will move with enough force. With the timing mark lined up on the outside of the cam cover, when looking down the oil hole you should see a dimple in the top of the inlet camshaft when at TDC. Don't know about the BT but the ST has two sets of timing marks and if the top ones are right there are two marks next to each other where the cam wheels are closest together. Have a look here - http://image.importtuner.com/f/tech/imp ... -gears.jpg.

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Ash Kelly Barr
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by Ash Kelly Barr »

Should take some photos man!
I'm now going with a 20v engine but swopping my ZE rods and pistons in and retaining the charger so keep the post up with any finds!

Around how much was it to get the pistons and rods balanced and the block honed?
Toyota motors:
Current - 89 AW11 factory manual SC
Sold - 74 Toyota Crown wagon (MS63), Holden 308, TH400 trans

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85AW20v
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by 85AW20v »

20v ST and ZE rods are the same. 20v BT rods are different.

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Ash Kelly Barr
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by Ash Kelly Barr »

^ this is true how ever I might end up with a BT bottom end. Depends what comes up when I'm ready to buy
Toyota motors:
Current - 89 AW11 factory manual SC
Sold - 74 Toyota Crown wagon (MS63), Holden 308, TH400 trans

SkweekyEvil
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by SkweekyEvil »

Yes I do need to work on my paragraphing a little...

That timing link is useful! I ended up using it to sort the timing after loosing it on the AW while i was fixing that !@^#$%& oil leak that 4AGE's love oh-so-much! The other little thing that was sorted was the alternator packed up, turns out that the positive cable had broken free of it's lug. A trip to the wholesalers and a new lug with some heat shrink saw this problem quickly dissolve. One thing about this that does pay to mention i believe is that if your alternator is not connected then the engine starts hunting.. A LOT OF HUNTING. Also all dash lights stay permanently on except the check engine and the hand brake indicators. May help someone one day :)

Anyhow, timing is a lot better than it was, a mate and i had done it earlier and hadn't done such a good job...

I had my engine work done at North Shore Engine. The guy there, Wayne, is pretty cool. Knows whats going on that's for sure! Thing that I liked about him was that he will actually say when something is a con and not worth spending money on. Anyways, here's some prices for you.

Chem clean on block, crank, pistons $80
Deglaze and power hone cylinders $80
Mill Block face $90
Hand buff pistons and measure for size and clean grooves to suit rings $100
Measure crank and super polish big ends $80
Workshop consumable $20

Also got quite a few photo's and a time lapse of most of the rebuild. The one photo that i really wish i had got was the comparison between Blacktop rods and some small port redtop rods. The Blacktop ones are sooooooo small!!!!! I'll get some when the next engine gets rebuilt.
AW11 89 S/C - STOLEN (Destroyed)
AW11 84 N/A - Runner

SkweekyEvil
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by SkweekyEvil »

Also
$300 for balance. This was each part and each component individually ballenced
AW11 89 S/C - STOLEN (Destroyed)
AW11 84 N/A - Runner

SkweekyEvil
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by SkweekyEvil »

Heya all
Recently i have been having a lot of trouble with the alternator in my AW11 S/C.

Firstly I'll share what has learned for the benefit of others, followed by the mysterys yet to receive an answer for from the diagnostic dice.
When all lights on the dash stay on after start-up (including the supercharger light) but not including the check engine light or the hand-break light, this means your alternator is not working =)
There are a few things to check the two that have given me trouble are the positive on the alternator its-self has fallen off and the belt is slipping.
So to start off with the old and tired positive rusted off and was discovered and replaced with an insulated lug (I wasn't happy with the connection but was in a rush so left it).
When it fell off again there was a lot more effort put into fixing it with an un-insulated lug and heat shrink, this also revealed the the insulation on the cable was in a very poor condition but due to the new heat shrink that covered most of the cable I wasn't worried.
Tonight on the way home the tell-tail lights letting me know the alternator had stopped (again) showed there red faces top a torrent of abuse. Investigation revealed that the lug just melted at the point of connection with the cable! Pics soon to follow

So I am wondering if the heat produce by the exhaust manifold coupled with an positive temperature-resistance co-efficient of the metal causes current and heat to build to melting point... Hope not but that is my best guess at this stage.

Anyone had more experience in this than me and care to shed light on the situation?

Cheers

P.S. I have also posted this in the AW11 section as it will be easier to find there if anyone else ever has these issues
AW11 89 S/C - STOLEN (Destroyed)
AW11 84 N/A - Runner

SkweekyEvil
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Re: 89 S/C This is Defiantly a Project!

Post by SkweekyEvil »

THIS CAR HAS BEEN STOLEN
Taken on the 26/4/2014 from Grafton between 1AM and morning. Drivers side window broken out. Please contact me with any information or report any siting to police. that thing was my ugly baby and i miss it :(
AW11 89 S/C - STOLEN (Destroyed)
AW11 84 N/A - Runner

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