Project 9AGZE AW11
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This section of the forum is a great resource if you're looking for ideas, and it's a cool way of obtaining technical information that may otherwise not have been posted. (Members can use the Search functionality at top right of the forum to speed up finding things) Please respect others' contributions and don't diss anyone - keep comments helpful, factual, positive and polite. One thread per vehicle or owner please - don't start lots of threads about just one car. And if you need assistance with your car and want to host a spanner day, please use the appropriate section of the forum: http://mr2.org.nz/phpbb3/viewforum.php?f=35 Thank you.
This section of the forum is a great resource if you're looking for ideas, and it's a cool way of obtaining technical information that may otherwise not have been posted. (Members can use the Search functionality at top right of the forum to speed up finding things) Please respect others' contributions and don't diss anyone - keep comments helpful, factual, positive and polite. One thread per vehicle or owner please - don't start lots of threads about just one car. And if you need assistance with your car and want to host a spanner day, please use the appropriate section of the forum: http://mr2.org.nz/phpbb3/viewforum.php?f=35 Thank you.
- nick.parker
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:49 am
- Stomping Ground: Christchurch
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Nick
Project 9AGZE AW11
This is my ride. A 1987 MK1 AW11. Bought stock in when I was living in Perth, Western Australia, I couldn't help myself to start modding it. When I came back to New Zealand in late 2007, I brought the car with me. So glad I did bring it home -- I almost didn't due to the $3000 odd shipping cost.
So after trying a larger pulley with the SC12, I decided to follow the tried and tested SC14 path (SC14=1420cc/rev vs. the SC12's 1200cc/rev supercharger). This is the SC14 bracket I made with $100 arc welder and $30 grinder, proving you do not need great wealth to fabricate -- although this was probably about my 3rd attempt to make a bracket the first two were not good . This is made with 5mm mild steel plate.
But plumbing was done by a pro (not me!)
Although engine was a stock 4AGZE, I did some old and cheap (but effective) 550cc RX7 injectors, the SC14 of course, and a big 172mm crank pulley. Just 'incase' I and added a WALBRO 255 fuel pump and the Subaru water to air intercooling system. At this point in my life, I'd built my first engine management system and I tuned the car myself just with a wideband, and with some luck (and Toyota's over engineering) did not blow up the motor!
At one point, running super rich (so that had black smoke) the car made 150RWHP @ 7000RPM. But I leaned it out after that dyno session and would have gained another 10hp easily I'm sure. It only got so rich as the dyno operator's wideband was reading very lean (sensor may've been had it) and he wouldn't let me dyno it at high RPMs/load until he though it was rich enough.
Last edited by nick.parker on Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:33 am, edited 10 times in total.
- nick.parker
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:49 am
- Stomping Ground: Christchurch
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Nick
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
So with more speed, I thought bigger brakes would be a good idea. So I changed to the bolt on ST-185 Celica big single pots.
Disc comparison of stock AW11SC rotors and ST-185 (4WD) rotors -- 277 x 25mm (vs 260mm x 22mm AW11)
I didn't like the open diff (after having had a clutch plate LSD in the past) so I source an E58 LSD gearbox, and had it modded for the AW11 shifter, and also used the supported half shaft setup (with equal length half shafts). At this time not realising even the shafts were not quite right.
Since the stock water pump fouled on the SC14, it had to go....I installed an electric water pump and remote thermostat
Lastly more boost just made the stock clutch slip like buggery -- so I invested in more overkill -- a better clutch and a billet flywheel
Last edited by nick.parker on Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
- nick.parker
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:49 am
- Stomping Ground: Christchurch
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Nick
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
So since then a few more things :
Bigger exhaust secondaries (the car even idled better after this) Needed bigger wheels to clear the brakes (shame as I loved the previous 15s) Here is my custom ECU (yes I was 'Aspire' and this was my QUAD128 (4 cylinder specific) ECU Heres my 17Xmm crank pulley vs Stock
Bigger exhaust secondaries (the car even idled better after this) Needed bigger wheels to clear the brakes (shame as I loved the previous 15s) Here is my custom ECU (yes I was 'Aspire' and this was my QUAD128 (4 cylinder specific) ECU Heres my 17Xmm crank pulley vs Stock
Last edited by nick.parker on Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Ash Kelly Barr
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:12 am
- Stomping Ground: Auckland
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Ash
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
Awesome stuff man! nice to see you got your bottom end
What's the specs on the cams? And how come more duration on the ex?
I'm yet install your old cams
What box are you using? And have you done anything to strengthen it up?
What's the specs on the cams? And how come more duration on the ex?
I'm yet install your old cams
What box are you using? And have you done anything to strengthen it up?
Toyota motors:
Current - 89 AW11 factory manual SC
Sold - 74 Toyota Crown wagon (MS63), Holden 308, TH400 trans
Current - 89 AW11 factory manual SC
Sold - 74 Toyota Crown wagon (MS63), Holden 308, TH400 trans
- nick.parker
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:49 am
- Stomping Ground: Christchurch
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Nick
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
Hi Ash,
Inlet cam is a bit more than 9.2mm lift, 220°@ 0.050" lift. Exhaust is around 8.5mm lift and closer to 240° @ 0.050 lift.
The cams are a bit wilder, but similar to the Wade 267° you bought from me which are 220° @ 0.050 and about 8.1mm lift at the cam.
I'm hoping the bigger 1880cc vs 1587cc capacity of the new bottom end will give a similar bottom end torque to what I have now.
Nick.
Inlet cam is a bit more than 9.2mm lift, 220°@ 0.050" lift. Exhaust is around 8.5mm lift and closer to 240° @ 0.050 lift.
The cams are a bit wilder, but similar to the Wade 267° you bought from me which are 220° @ 0.050 and about 8.1mm lift at the cam.
I'm hoping the bigger 1880cc vs 1587cc capacity of the new bottom end will give a similar bottom end torque to what I have now.
Nick.
- nick.parker
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:49 am
- Stomping Ground: Christchurch
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Nick
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
For a gearbox I'm going to use the original E51 box - no need to strengthen these - only weak point is the bad syncho action after a few 1000's of k's. Early SW20 gearboxes have EXACTLY the same internal parts as AW11 GZE - both are "wide gear" boxes. Later post 93 SW20 went to a fancier synchro (as did st205-gt4, camry V6 which has similar internals) E51's or E153 internals do handle 800hp drag 3SGTEs. Anyway I digress! I'm installing a KAAZ Two Way LSD into the box - should sort any traction issues!
Nick.
Nick.
- Ash Kelly Barr
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:12 am
- Stomping Ground: Auckland
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Ash
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
Ok cool, I ask as mines got a nice crunch into third when pulling hard out of corners and am debating what to do aboutit for my build. Brand new OEM sycro's ya reckon?
I take it your staying with the sc14 and scobi W/A ic?
I'd be keen to see some dunno results from the old motor and this one when its finished
I take it your staying with the sc14 and scobi W/A ic?
I'd be keen to see some dunno results from the old motor and this one when its finished
Toyota motors:
Current - 89 AW11 factory manual SC
Sold - 74 Toyota Crown wagon (MS63), Holden 308, TH400 trans
Current - 89 AW11 factory manual SC
Sold - 74 Toyota Crown wagon (MS63), Holden 308, TH400 trans
- nick.parker
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:49 am
- Stomping Ground: Christchurch
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Nick
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
Hi Ash,
No - not sticking with the SC14 (1420cc/rev) anymore - going to go twin-screw with an Autorotor 2087 (870cc/rev).
The Autorotor can rev at 15k rpm continuous - so moves a similar amount of air to an SC14 at 10krpm - probably more because of high precision clearances. The Autorotor can be spun a bit faster short duration too (18k) and it is a lot more efficient. One guy (Ron on MR2SC forums), on a stock small-port 4AGZE got 270rwhp at 21psi. So with more engine capacity (for lower / more efficient boost for same flow) than Ron - and a ported, big valve, big cam cylinder head I think 300 wheel engine h.p. is about what I'll end up with.
So here is the new bottom end -- a 7A block, with 90mm stroke crank, and 81.5mm bore -- all that gives 1878cc Here is the small port head that is going onto that block And with 32mm intake and 27.55mm exhaust valves installed using stock, although machined valve seats Secondhand Autorotor 2087 supercharger - 870cc/rev - but - continuous speed rating of 15k rpm
No - not sticking with the SC14 (1420cc/rev) anymore - going to go twin-screw with an Autorotor 2087 (870cc/rev).
The Autorotor can rev at 15k rpm continuous - so moves a similar amount of air to an SC14 at 10krpm - probably more because of high precision clearances. The Autorotor can be spun a bit faster short duration too (18k) and it is a lot more efficient. One guy (Ron on MR2SC forums), on a stock small-port 4AGZE got 270rwhp at 21psi. So with more engine capacity (for lower / more efficient boost for same flow) than Ron - and a ported, big valve, big cam cylinder head I think 300 wheel engine h.p. is about what I'll end up with.
So here is the new bottom end -- a 7A block, with 90mm stroke crank, and 81.5mm bore -- all that gives 1878cc Here is the small port head that is going onto that block And with 32mm intake and 27.55mm exhaust valves installed using stock, although machined valve seats Secondhand Autorotor 2087 supercharger - 870cc/rev - but - continuous speed rating of 15k rpm
Last edited by nick.parker on Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:35 pm, edited 4 times in total.
- nick.parker
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:49 am
- Stomping Ground: Christchurch
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Nick
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
Here are a few more ECU related pic....a very nice colleague at work drew up a case for me which I got made.
This wasn't a few weeks of work just in case you're wondering......its been a 15 YEAR+ labour of love, which has included learning XML, C# and how to write decent engine management software!
Snippet of my source code! My desk - where countless hours of development and debugging have occurred! ECU installed in sheet metal case, in car. (It used to be in a plastic shopping bag..then a cardboard box )
This wasn't a few weeks of work just in case you're wondering......its been a 15 YEAR+ labour of love, which has included learning XML, C# and how to write decent engine management software!
Snippet of my source code! My desk - where countless hours of development and debugging have occurred! ECU installed in sheet metal case, in car. (It used to be in a plastic shopping bag..then a cardboard box )
Last edited by nick.parker on Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
- MR2GUY
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:10 pm
- Stomping Ground: Auckland
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Cameron
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
interesting twin screw choice, i have a twincrew setup on stock smallport 4agze, managed to make 165wkw at 14psi so i imagine your 300 would be pretty realistic depending on the boost you see, might have a tough time with such a small displacement on the supercharger though. what are your pulley ratios going to be?
- Ash Kelly Barr
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:12 am
- Stomping Ground: Auckland
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Ash
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
The ecu and software is epic for a home build man!
And yeah that is a small charger man. 15,000 continuous is pretty good though. And you could probably crank it to 20,000 short burst depending on your intended use...??
Boost would be dictated by flow of cams n head n comp n blah blah so you are really only limited as per rpm specs of charger as you say
This is awesome man! This is what I hope to one day do
And yeah that is a small charger man. 15,000 continuous is pretty good though. And you could probably crank it to 20,000 short burst depending on your intended use...??
Boost would be dictated by flow of cams n head n comp n blah blah so you are really only limited as per rpm specs of charger as you say
This is awesome man! This is what I hope to one day do
Toyota motors:
Current - 89 AW11 factory manual SC
Sold - 74 Toyota Crown wagon (MS63), Holden 308, TH400 trans
Current - 89 AW11 factory manual SC
Sold - 74 Toyota Crown wagon (MS63), Holden 308, TH400 trans
- mickeyduck
- Life Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 6144
- Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:30 am
- Stomping Ground: Auckland
- Prime Mover: More than one MR2
- First name: Charlie
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
I like threads like this. Interesting stuff! Can't wait to see the end result. I bet after 10 years of working on this, Nick can hardly wait too!
Maybe you and Mike will need to get together at a southern race track and compare notes once both your cars are completed.
Maybe you and Mike will need to get together at a southern race track and compare notes once both your cars are completed.
#8^) Charlie the certified Westie
Retired - President 2012 - 2018
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Financial Club Member since 2004 and thanks to *84vvt and co-conspirators, Life Member since April 2017
100+ MR2OCNZ runs and counting... When going hard, good rubber's your best protection against unwanted accidents. Buy good tyres!
When you're nearing the end of the drag-strip and you have no 'chute, you may as well keep your foot to the floor... Live life. There ain't no second pass.
Retired - President 2012 - 2018
Retired - Committee Member 2009 - 2018
Retired - Auckland Area Coordinator 2009 - 2018
Retired - Webmaster, Forum Host & Admin 2010 - 2018 - Now it's mknz
Financial Club Member since 2004 and thanks to *84vvt and co-conspirators, Life Member since April 2017
100+ MR2OCNZ runs and counting... When going hard, good rubber's your best protection against unwanted accidents. Buy good tyres!
When you're nearing the end of the drag-strip and you have no 'chute, you may as well keep your foot to the floor... Live life. There ain't no second pass.
- nick.parker
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:49 am
- Stomping Ground: Christchurch
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Nick
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
My custom (me) Crankshaft position sensor - the wheel has a special 15-bit long binary sequence
Adapter installed into crank pulley so encoder wheel can bolt on to the closest tooth - the triangle marks the ref position where the sensor should point at when the engine is at firing TDC #1.
The crank pulley is stock 150mm, the SC pulley is 66mm. So ratio is 2.3 approx, should give about +1.1 bar or 16psi boost.
At 7500rpm the SC would get to 17250 rpm. Its on the high side, but should be OK. I'll mostly shift more like 6500 anyway (SC would be at is continuous rate 15K rpm at this engine speed).
Adapter installed into crank pulley so encoder wheel can bolt on to the closest tooth - the triangle marks the ref position where the sensor should point at when the engine is at firing TDC #1.
The crank pulley is stock 150mm, the SC pulley is 66mm. So ratio is 2.3 approx, should give about +1.1 bar or 16psi boost.
At 7500rpm the SC would get to 17250 rpm. Its on the high side, but should be OK. I'll mostly shift more like 6500 anyway (SC would be at is continuous rate 15K rpm at this engine speed).
- JasonFriday13
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
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- First name: Jason
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
Interesting, are you not using a sync signal off a camshaft? Are you going to run sequential injection/ignition or grouped/wasted spark\dizzy?
Jason Ross, current cars:
Project: 1990 SW20 GT, 1992+ brake swap, 1992+ subframe swap, 1996 Celica turbo engine swap, 1996 MR2 LSD gearbox swap, Caldina Turbo coil-on-plug ignition, Link G4 Storm, 161kw @ 10psi.
Daily: 2004 Toyota Vitz RS, 1.5L, 5sp
Tow rig: 2009 Camry, 2.4L, auto
Scrapped: 1989 SW20 GT, 1992 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car, donor, 1997 Toyota Tercel 3dr hatch, front crash, 1990 SW20, G-Limited, ex EssDub car, roll crashed, donor
Sold: 1987 AW11 Supercharged, 1991 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car
Project: 1990 SW20 GT, 1992+ brake swap, 1992+ subframe swap, 1996 Celica turbo engine swap, 1996 MR2 LSD gearbox swap, Caldina Turbo coil-on-plug ignition, Link G4 Storm, 161kw @ 10psi.
Daily: 2004 Toyota Vitz RS, 1.5L, 5sp
Tow rig: 2009 Camry, 2.4L, auto
Scrapped: 1989 SW20 GT, 1992 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car, donor, 1997 Toyota Tercel 3dr hatch, front crash, 1990 SW20, G-Limited, ex EssDub car, roll crashed, donor
Sold: 1987 AW11 Supercharged, 1991 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car
- nick.parker
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:49 am
- Stomping Ground: Christchurch
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Nick
Re: Project 9AGZE AW11
Hi,
I wrote some clever software for my ECU....so I can sync in 'two stroke' mode (using only the crank wheel) and used batched ignition and injection (injectors fire twice as often and coils too, but then the coils do in sequential mode anyway due to wasted spark setup)
When (if) the ECU receives the correct "1 in 720" sync from the cam angle sensor (must be in a valid crank tooth window), this is used to move seamlessly from the 360° domain into the 720° domain. i.e. the ECU automatically goes to sequential mode (one injection per 720°).
I have some ideas to do away with the cam sensor entirely, and use a momentary "trial and error" (and look at crankshaft acceleration) but I need to get individual coils to do this....then my ECU can detect that a spark caused nothing, or crankshaft acceleration.....
Nick,
I wrote some clever software for my ECU....so I can sync in 'two stroke' mode (using only the crank wheel) and used batched ignition and injection (injectors fire twice as often and coils too, but then the coils do in sequential mode anyway due to wasted spark setup)
When (if) the ECU receives the correct "1 in 720" sync from the cam angle sensor (must be in a valid crank tooth window), this is used to move seamlessly from the 360° domain into the 720° domain. i.e. the ECU automatically goes to sequential mode (one injection per 720°).
I have some ideas to do away with the cam sensor entirely, and use a momentary "trial and error" (and look at crankshaft acceleration) but I need to get individual coils to do this....then my ECU can detect that a spark caused nothing, or crankshaft acceleration.....
Nick,