Mike's Twin Screw MR2
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This section of the forum is a great resource if you're looking for ideas, and it's a cool way of obtaining technical information that may otherwise not have been posted. (Members can use the Search functionality at top right of the forum to speed up finding things) Please respect others' contributions and don't diss anyone - keep comments helpful, factual, positive and polite. One thread per vehicle or owner please - don't start lots of threads about just one car. And if you need assistance with your car and want to host a spanner day, please use the appropriate section of the forum: http://mr2.org.nz/phpbb3/viewforum.php?f=35 Thank you.
This section of the forum is a great resource if you're looking for ideas, and it's a cool way of obtaining technical information that may otherwise not have been posted. (Members can use the Search functionality at top right of the forum to speed up finding things) Please respect others' contributions and don't diss anyone - keep comments helpful, factual, positive and polite. One thread per vehicle or owner please - don't start lots of threads about just one car. And if you need assistance with your car and want to host a spanner day, please use the appropriate section of the forum: http://mr2.org.nz/phpbb3/viewforum.php?f=35 Thank you.
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- Guest of the Club.
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:28 pm
- Stomping Ground: Wellington
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Mike
Mike's Twin Screw MR2
Hi everyone, just thought I would share my AW11 build. This is my first post on the forum!
Base car is a manual 1987 Supercharged MR2 in two-tone white/grey with 100,000km on the clock. Owned it for a couple of years and did some minor fixes/upgrades - alternator brushes, gearbox speedo fix, Quaife quick rack, clutch master and slave cylinder, Koni adjustable shocks, stainless brake lines, ST sway bars front and rear, plastic suspension bushes.
I've ending up getting a bit carried away though and have embarked on an ambitious project to replace the stock SC12 supercharger with a Sprintex twin screw supercharger. The reason for this is to get more power out of the 4AGZE but keep a positive displacement blower for good linear power. Could have gone 4AGTE but was keen on doing something original. Power target is around 250hp at the crank running 15psi boost, could go higher with smaller SC pulley.
List of parts to install:
Sprintex S5-210 twinscrew supercharger
Quaife Helical LSD
Megasquirt ECU + wideband O2 sensor
Kelford 193-T camshafts
CP Forged Pistons 81.5mm 9.0:1
Injector Dynamics ID725 fuel injectors x4
Kelford KVS101-16 valve springs
E51 Gearbox Bearings, Synchronizers, Gaskets
Water to air intercooler + radiator + pump
Fidanza 130441 Aluminum Flywheel
Brian Crower H Beam Rods 4.803
Exedy HD racing clutch
AW11 performance radiator
Fidanza adjustible cam gears
Tomei Fuel Pressure Regulator & Gauge
ARP head studs, main studs, flywheel bolts
Eaton supercharger bypass valve
Walbro 500hp intank pump
SQ Engineering 1ZZ coil adapter plate (converting to coil on plug)
TRD 0.8mm head gasket
Clear polyurethane cam cover
ACL rod, main, thrust bearings
4AG Oil Pan Baffle Kit
SQ Engineering Oil Pump Upgrade kit
Celica throttle body
NA intake manifold (Bigport)
Current progress:
Engine and transaxle removed from car
Shortblock and head back from reconditioners - new pistons, rods, cams, valve springs installed and balanced.
Currently rebuilding gearbox myself with new bearings and upgraded synchros. Had some problems getting one of the bearings so just waiting for this to arrive to rebuild.
Next challenges:
Fabricate mounts and plumbing for new supercharger
Install engine back in car
Then wire up engine and try to figure out the Megasquirt!
I didn't get any porting/polishing done on the big port head in the end due to cost. Do you think this omission will hurt my build much? Any other suggestions for my build?
Cheers, Mike
Base car is a manual 1987 Supercharged MR2 in two-tone white/grey with 100,000km on the clock. Owned it for a couple of years and did some minor fixes/upgrades - alternator brushes, gearbox speedo fix, Quaife quick rack, clutch master and slave cylinder, Koni adjustable shocks, stainless brake lines, ST sway bars front and rear, plastic suspension bushes.
I've ending up getting a bit carried away though and have embarked on an ambitious project to replace the stock SC12 supercharger with a Sprintex twin screw supercharger. The reason for this is to get more power out of the 4AGZE but keep a positive displacement blower for good linear power. Could have gone 4AGTE but was keen on doing something original. Power target is around 250hp at the crank running 15psi boost, could go higher with smaller SC pulley.
List of parts to install:
Sprintex S5-210 twinscrew supercharger
Quaife Helical LSD
Megasquirt ECU + wideband O2 sensor
Kelford 193-T camshafts
CP Forged Pistons 81.5mm 9.0:1
Injector Dynamics ID725 fuel injectors x4
Kelford KVS101-16 valve springs
E51 Gearbox Bearings, Synchronizers, Gaskets
Water to air intercooler + radiator + pump
Fidanza 130441 Aluminum Flywheel
Brian Crower H Beam Rods 4.803
Exedy HD racing clutch
AW11 performance radiator
Fidanza adjustible cam gears
Tomei Fuel Pressure Regulator & Gauge
ARP head studs, main studs, flywheel bolts
Eaton supercharger bypass valve
Walbro 500hp intank pump
SQ Engineering 1ZZ coil adapter plate (converting to coil on plug)
TRD 0.8mm head gasket
Clear polyurethane cam cover
ACL rod, main, thrust bearings
4AG Oil Pan Baffle Kit
SQ Engineering Oil Pump Upgrade kit
Celica throttle body
NA intake manifold (Bigport)
Current progress:
Engine and transaxle removed from car
Shortblock and head back from reconditioners - new pistons, rods, cams, valve springs installed and balanced.
Currently rebuilding gearbox myself with new bearings and upgraded synchros. Had some problems getting one of the bearings so just waiting for this to arrive to rebuild.
Next challenges:
Fabricate mounts and plumbing for new supercharger
Install engine back in car
Then wire up engine and try to figure out the Megasquirt!
I didn't get any porting/polishing done on the big port head in the end due to cost. Do you think this omission will hurt my build much? Any other suggestions for my build?
Cheers, Mike
- JasonFriday13
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 2503
- Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 5:19 pm
- Stomping Ground: Taranaki
- Prime Mover: SW20
- First name: Jason
Re: Mike's Twin Screw MR2
I don't know, I tend to see a port and polish as a high power mod, usually above about 350hp. Flow testing is generally the only way to know for sure if you need to do a port and polish. I know of a AW11 racecar that uses a stock unopened 20v silvertop with a turbo and it makes 177kw (236hp).
This is one build I will be keeping an eye on.
This is one build I will be keeping an eye on.
Jason Ross, current cars:
Project: 1990 SW20 GT, 1992+ brake swap, 1992+ subframe swap, 1996 Celica turbo engine swap, 1996 MR2 LSD gearbox swap, Caldina Turbo coil-on-plug ignition, Link G4 Storm, 161kw @ 10psi.
Daily: 2004 Toyota Vitz RS, 1.5L, 5sp
Tow rig: 2009 Camry, 2.4L, auto
Scrapped: 1989 SW20 GT, 1992 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car, donor, 1997 Toyota Tercel 3dr hatch, front crash, 1990 SW20, G-Limited, ex EssDub car, roll crashed, donor
Sold: 1987 AW11 Supercharged, 1991 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car
Project: 1990 SW20 GT, 1992+ brake swap, 1992+ subframe swap, 1996 Celica turbo engine swap, 1996 MR2 LSD gearbox swap, Caldina Turbo coil-on-plug ignition, Link G4 Storm, 161kw @ 10psi.
Daily: 2004 Toyota Vitz RS, 1.5L, 5sp
Tow rig: 2009 Camry, 2.4L, auto
Scrapped: 1989 SW20 GT, 1992 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car, donor, 1997 Toyota Tercel 3dr hatch, front crash, 1990 SW20, G-Limited, ex EssDub car, roll crashed, donor
Sold: 1987 AW11 Supercharged, 1991 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car
- Benckj
- Forum Moderator - MR2OCNZ
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- First name: Jim
Re: Mike's Twin Screw MR2
Welcome to club and will watch build with interest. I'm a SW20 follower but installed a Megasquirt and WB so can help with common questions...
Jim Benck
90 rev 1 parts car
98 rev 5 GT- all the mods
90 rev 1 parts car
98 rev 5 GT- all the mods
- MR2GUY
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
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- First name: Cameron
Re: Mike's Twin Screw MR2
Hi Mike, just in regards to camshafts, with a supercharged engine you want the opposite of turbo camshafts, want to have as little overlap as possible to avoid boost being thrown straight out. A turbo camshaft has a larger exhaust cam to help spool the turbo, but in the instance of a supercharger you want a larger intake cam to throw in boost efficiently and a smaller exhaust cam to stop boost being lost from overlap. essentially you want to run a decent intake camshaft and then create as little overlap as possible. I would definately recommend some adjustable cam pulleys to dial in less overlap so you do not loose boost.
I currently have built a twinscrew 4agze and with an unopened standard smallport it is making 165wkw at 14psi. I also saw 208kw with 19psi. I am using a Lysholm/whipple 1200ax
just be prepared, it is very LOUD!
although mine has been tuned to run as a blow-through setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qNv2XpNFME
I currently have built a twinscrew 4agze and with an unopened standard smallport it is making 165wkw at 14psi. I also saw 208kw with 19psi. I am using a Lysholm/whipple 1200ax
just be prepared, it is very LOUD!
although mine has been tuned to run as a blow-through setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qNv2XpNFME
- Alsw20
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- First name: Al
Re: Mike's Twin Screw MR2
Expensive build for not much power.
Will certainly keep you busy though
Will certainly keep you busy though
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- Guest of the Club.
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:28 pm
- Stomping Ground: Wellington
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Mike
Re: Mike's Twin Screw MR2
Thanks for the replies guys. I think due to my relatively modest power goals that missing out on the port and polish won't be a major.
Thanks MR2GUY for the advice on the cams. I do have some adjustable cam gears so can dial out some overlap. The Kelford cams allegedly have reduced overlap but yes they are designed for a turbo setup. I am a little bit worried about the noise - allegedly this can be reduced by making nice SC manifolds. Awesome to hear that someone else has done a twin screw 4AGZE!
I agree I could have got to the target power whilst spending a lot less money. For me it is more about the project than the final product though I guess - I'm an engineer so can't help tinkering. If I decrease the pulley size I could take the supercharger up to it's maximum RPM of 15000rpm with 20psi and the blower calculator predicts 300hp for that.
If anyone wants any advice on rebuilding or sourcing parts for E51 or E153 gearboxes I could definitely help out after my recent experience rebuilding the E51.
Thanks MR2GUY for the advice on the cams. I do have some adjustable cam gears so can dial out some overlap. The Kelford cams allegedly have reduced overlap but yes they are designed for a turbo setup. I am a little bit worried about the noise - allegedly this can be reduced by making nice SC manifolds. Awesome to hear that someone else has done a twin screw 4AGZE!
I agree I could have got to the target power whilst spending a lot less money. For me it is more about the project than the final product though I guess - I'm an engineer so can't help tinkering. If I decrease the pulley size I could take the supercharger up to it's maximum RPM of 15000rpm with 20psi and the blower calculator predicts 300hp for that.
If anyone wants any advice on rebuilding or sourcing parts for E51 or E153 gearboxes I could definitely help out after my recent experience rebuilding the E51.
- JasonFriday13
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
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- Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 5:19 pm
- Stomping Ground: Taranaki
- Prime Mover: SW20
- First name: Jason
Re: Mike's Twin Screw MR2
Look at it this way, you can twincharge it and the engine won't blow up (at least not intentionally).
Jason Ross, current cars:
Project: 1990 SW20 GT, 1992+ brake swap, 1992+ subframe swap, 1996 Celica turbo engine swap, 1996 MR2 LSD gearbox swap, Caldina Turbo coil-on-plug ignition, Link G4 Storm, 161kw @ 10psi.
Daily: 2004 Toyota Vitz RS, 1.5L, 5sp
Tow rig: 2009 Camry, 2.4L, auto
Scrapped: 1989 SW20 GT, 1992 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car, donor, 1997 Toyota Tercel 3dr hatch, front crash, 1990 SW20, G-Limited, ex EssDub car, roll crashed, donor
Sold: 1987 AW11 Supercharged, 1991 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car
Project: 1990 SW20 GT, 1992+ brake swap, 1992+ subframe swap, 1996 Celica turbo engine swap, 1996 MR2 LSD gearbox swap, Caldina Turbo coil-on-plug ignition, Link G4 Storm, 161kw @ 10psi.
Daily: 2004 Toyota Vitz RS, 1.5L, 5sp
Tow rig: 2009 Camry, 2.4L, auto
Scrapped: 1989 SW20 GT, 1992 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car, donor, 1997 Toyota Tercel 3dr hatch, front crash, 1990 SW20, G-Limited, ex EssDub car, roll crashed, donor
Sold: 1987 AW11 Supercharged, 1991 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car
- Troyhaima
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 442
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:38 pm
- Stomping Ground: Christchurch
- Prime Mover: SW20
- First name: Troy
Re: Mike's Twin Screw MR2
well looking at this i think i know what way im going to go with my aw. was planing sc14 but this looks lots beter. be keen to see how you do the bracets. also were can you get that sc from.
I have dyslexia so please excuse spelling.
1991 sw20 mr2 non turbo new engine in with street cams also have done body work to it. sold
1990 sw20 mr2 na, street cams, link ecu
1986 aw11 mr2 blacktop 20v.
1986 s/c aw11 mr2
1986 nissan patrol (set up on some 35/10.5 tyires plus bull bars and other stuff for 4wding)
1991 sw20 mr2 non turbo new engine in with street cams also have done body work to it. sold
1990 sw20 mr2 na, street cams, link ecu
1986 aw11 mr2 blacktop 20v.
1986 s/c aw11 mr2
1986 nissan patrol (set up on some 35/10.5 tyires plus bull bars and other stuff for 4wding)
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- Guest of the Club.
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:28 pm
- Stomping Ground: Wellington
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Mike
Re: Mike's Twin Screw MR2
Hi Troyhaima, I got the SC from Australia when I was over there on holiday and brought it back in my suitcase. That was a few years ago now though and looking on their website they have some NZ based dealers now.
http://www.sprintex.com.au/dealer-portal/find-a-dealer/
Will let you know how the SC mounting goes. Just sourcing shims for the gearbox then will start work on the engine.
http://www.sprintex.com.au/dealer-portal/find-a-dealer/
Will let you know how the SC mounting goes. Just sourcing shims for the gearbox then will start work on the engine.
-
- Guest of the Club.
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:28 pm
- Stomping Ground: Wellington
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Mike
Re: Mike's Twin Screw MR2
I've been thinking again about how to run the plumbing for the intake. Originally I was planning on doing it like this: Air intake/filter -> Supercharger -> Intercooler -> Throttle body -> N/A intake manifold -> Engine. Obviously with a positive displacement supercharger the bypass valve is critical with this configuration but I do have quite a large one that operates mechanically on intake vacuum so should be OK. I thought the advantage of this would be better throttle response, simplified plumbing and getting rid of the 4AGZE intake manifold. However after doing some research and looking at the post from MR2GUY I'm not sure if the increased noise will be worth it. Also due to the twin screw having internal compression gas mileage will be lousy at cruise as the supercharger would use the same crankshaft power regardless of whether you are flooring it or cruising down the highway. Also all OEM setups I have seen with roots or twin screw superchargers place the throttle body before the charger. Soooo I am thinking of going back to the stock configuration of Air intake/filter -> Throttle body -> Supercharger -> Intercooler -> 4AGZE intake manifold -> Engine. Bit of a shame to use the 4AGZE intake manifold as it is rubbish by all accounts but I guess it should be fine for my build.
Anyway after looking at this I've come up with a list of pros and cons for either configuration. Any comments on this list guys? Am I on the right track?
Throttle body before supercharger (suck-through)
Pros
Better gas mileage when cruising as supercharger is compressing vacuum
Not too noisy when cruising
OEMs do it this way
Cons
Average throttle response
Complicated intake plumbing
Throttle body after supercharger (blow-through)
Pros
Good throttle response
Plumbing less complex and doesn't require remote mounted throttle body
Cons
Poor gas mileage on cruise as supercharger is working hard at all times
Noisy at all times - probably due to the above fact
Anyway after looking at this I've come up with a list of pros and cons for either configuration. Any comments on this list guys? Am I on the right track?
Throttle body before supercharger (suck-through)
Pros
Better gas mileage when cruising as supercharger is compressing vacuum
Not too noisy when cruising
OEMs do it this way
Cons
Average throttle response
Complicated intake plumbing
Throttle body after supercharger (blow-through)
Pros
Good throttle response
Plumbing less complex and doesn't require remote mounted throttle body
Cons
Poor gas mileage on cruise as supercharger is working hard at all times
Noisy at all times - probably due to the above fact
- JasonFriday13
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
- Posts: 2503
- Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 5:19 pm
- Stomping Ground: Taranaki
- Prime Mover: SW20
- First name: Jason
Re: Mike's Twin Screw MR2
I would be going throttle body before supercharger, it shouldn't have (relatively) much lag anyway because the supercharger isn't clutched like it is on the stock SC12. If you want lag, put a turbo on .
Jason Ross, current cars:
Project: 1990 SW20 GT, 1992+ brake swap, 1992+ subframe swap, 1996 Celica turbo engine swap, 1996 MR2 LSD gearbox swap, Caldina Turbo coil-on-plug ignition, Link G4 Storm, 161kw @ 10psi.
Daily: 2004 Toyota Vitz RS, 1.5L, 5sp
Tow rig: 2009 Camry, 2.4L, auto
Scrapped: 1989 SW20 GT, 1992 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car, donor, 1997 Toyota Tercel 3dr hatch, front crash, 1990 SW20, G-Limited, ex EssDub car, roll crashed, donor
Sold: 1987 AW11 Supercharged, 1991 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car
Project: 1990 SW20 GT, 1992+ brake swap, 1992+ subframe swap, 1996 Celica turbo engine swap, 1996 MR2 LSD gearbox swap, Caldina Turbo coil-on-plug ignition, Link G4 Storm, 161kw @ 10psi.
Daily: 2004 Toyota Vitz RS, 1.5L, 5sp
Tow rig: 2009 Camry, 2.4L, auto
Scrapped: 1989 SW20 GT, 1992 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car, donor, 1997 Toyota Tercel 3dr hatch, front crash, 1990 SW20, G-Limited, ex EssDub car, roll crashed, donor
Sold: 1987 AW11 Supercharged, 1991 SW20 G-Limited, ex EssDub car
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- Guest of the Club.
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:28 pm
- Stomping Ground: Wellington
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Mike
Re: Mike's Twin Screw MR2
It's been a while since I posted on this thread so I thought I'd provide an update. Progress has been slow but things are happening! I decided to go with the throttle body before the supercharger (same as stock configuration).
Updates since last post:
New supercharger mounts fabricated and intake and outlet manifolds fitted
E51 Gearbox finished and transaxle assembled
20V Blacktop headers and B-pipe fitted. Required some drilling and welding on the flange to fit
4AGZE AE92 CAS fitted in place of distributor
Smaller reduction type 4A starter fitted
Transaxle installed back in car
Aluminium adapters made on lathe to allow fitting of 1ZZ COPs
New stainless steel AN6 fuel lines and Tomei FPR fitted
70mm universal throttle body with ISC and TPS purchased
Frozenboost water to air intercooler purchased
Thermostatic sandwich plate and oil cooler purchased
Stock engine wiring loom butchered to remove wiring not required with new setup
Left to do:
Induction piping
Finish wiring loom by integrating new Megasquirt harness
Get the car running. I'm planning full sequential spark and fuel
Water to air fitting of front radiator and coolant piping
Finish Exhaust
Tune
I might be getting a bit ahead of myself here but the twin charge idea is pretty tempting! If I do it I would go turbo blowing into throttle, then SC, then intercooler then intake. I would do a compound setup with no bypass and ideally run on E85. For now I will just try to get it running with the SC and 95 octane.
Some photos:
Supercharger mounts Bypass valve Spaghetti junction
Updates since last post:
New supercharger mounts fabricated and intake and outlet manifolds fitted
E51 Gearbox finished and transaxle assembled
20V Blacktop headers and B-pipe fitted. Required some drilling and welding on the flange to fit
4AGZE AE92 CAS fitted in place of distributor
Smaller reduction type 4A starter fitted
Transaxle installed back in car
Aluminium adapters made on lathe to allow fitting of 1ZZ COPs
New stainless steel AN6 fuel lines and Tomei FPR fitted
70mm universal throttle body with ISC and TPS purchased
Frozenboost water to air intercooler purchased
Thermostatic sandwich plate and oil cooler purchased
Stock engine wiring loom butchered to remove wiring not required with new setup
Left to do:
Induction piping
Finish wiring loom by integrating new Megasquirt harness
Get the car running. I'm planning full sequential spark and fuel
Water to air fitting of front radiator and coolant piping
Finish Exhaust
Tune
I might be getting a bit ahead of myself here but the twin charge idea is pretty tempting! If I do it I would go turbo blowing into throttle, then SC, then intercooler then intake. I would do a compound setup with no bypass and ideally run on E85. For now I will just try to get it running with the SC and 95 octane.
Some photos:
Supercharger mounts Bypass valve Spaghetti junction
- MR2GUY
- Club Member - MR2OCNZ
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- Stomping Ground: Auckland
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- First name: Cameron
Re: Mike's Twin Screw MR2
That's looking really good Mike, should be great fun to drive. What sort of pulley ratio did you end up with?
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- Guest of the Club.
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- Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:28 pm
- Stomping Ground: Wellington
- Prime Mover: AW11
- First name: Mike
Re: Mike's Twin Screw MR2
I've got 92mm and 80mm supercharger pulleys and using the stock 4AGZE harmonic balancer with 150mm pulley. Going to start with the 92mm pulley. 92mm pulley should give 15psi, 80mm pulley should give 20psi.