tw2's mr2 - the journey to a clean 2

[afot]

Gone over to P.M.'ing ya now Tom, as I'm hijacking your thread, sorry about doing that...

[tw2]

Small update. HKS exhaust is on. It is too loud. I ordered an HKS silencer from Japan, should be here next week. Hopefully that will make it a bit more neighbour friendly. The koni's finally arrived (ordered last March). Now just waiting for the insanely expensive rear top mounts from primedriven. I will take the struts out in a few days once I get the other car back. I will get the swaybar mounts reinforced before putting it back together and have a tool made to do up the koni nuts- they use a two hole flat pin wrench instead of the huge hex nut that the stock inserts are held in with. The stock nuts won't fit over the koni inserts either.

And then for the fun part.... oil is below the dipstick. I haven't been keeping the best eye on it but over 3L has disappeared between oil changes (I have been topping it up). Seems to have started in the last 10,000km. Not a drip on the floor. It used to have white smoke on start up (presumably valve seals) but I haven't seen this for ages.

So full rebuild + moroso pan? I guess the block might as well come apart in case the bearings are on their way out.

[GDII]

That's no good. Doesn't the silencer turn your 3" exhaust into a 1”? Defeating the purpose of having such a system?

Good old GEN2 3SGE. Uses oil no matter what you do. Always keep an eye on the oil levels. So many die because it's neglected.

Sounds like an expensive thing to do to rebuild this engine but I guess you'll still have a decent one that's the factory engine in the long run. Engine swaps can be more cost effective but then you need to find a decent engine first if you go with something else like GEN3 3SGE or a turbo engine of GEN3-5.

[tw2]

Probably 1.5" yes. The purpose of the exhaust was to have a decent system for when turbo is added. The purpose of putting it on the car now was to free up garage space

My guess is that most engine swaps will still need a bunch of seals and head gasket changed at the least given their age. Most caldinas seem to have driven to Pluto and back as well.

Presumably the gen 2 3sge is good for 10 years after a rebuild without losing oil again? I'll have to keep thinking about what to do.

[GDII]

Same with me, I bought the TRD muffler for the turbo swap. Wouldn't the standard muffler take up more space than this smaller HKS unit?

Most engine swaps would need seals at least, you'd be silly not to do it with the engine out. You wouldn't have to do the head gasket, quite often doing that can make things worse.

Yes they have been drive to pluto and back but they are a new designed engine so have better things over the old 80s designed GEN2.
I have spent a lot on fixing up my GEN2s so I can't really convince you that it's not a good idea. But when I was using 1 litre per 300km due to worn rings it was time to do something. Buy a $200 engine with twice the mileage on it than the current engine....

[tw2]

Same with me, I bought the TRD muffler for the turbo swap. Wouldn't the standard muffler take up more space than this smaller HKS unit?

If I am happy with the sound of the HKS + silencer, the stock one will go to the metal recyclers

I have spent a lot on fixing up my GEN2s so I can't really convince you that it's not a good idea. But when I was using 1 litre per 300km due to worn rings it was time to do something. Buy a $200 engine with twice the mileage on it than the current engine....

Its hard to know what to do. Timing belt will need changing sometime in the next 30k. It is easy to add a whole heap of things together and go a bit nuts. If I take the engine out I would want to check the bearings since it could have been oil starved. Do I then replace the bearings, pistons rings, new head gasket, water pump etc. Do I take the opportunity to get the pan ready for a turbo drain, upgrade the clutch, add 3sgte flywheel.... or just keep adding a litre of oil every 3000km.

[GDII]

If I am happy with the sound of the HKS + silencer, the stock one will go to the metal recyclers
Might get more selling it to a person than scrap.

Its hard to know what to do. Timing belt will need changing sometime in the next 30k. It is easy to add a whole heap of things together and go a bit nuts. If I take the engine out I would want to check the bearings since it could have been oil starved. Do I then replace the bearings, pistons rings, new head gasket, water pump etc. Do I take the opportunity to get the pan ready for a turbo drain, upgrade the clutch, add 3sgte flywheel.... or just keep adding a litre of oil every 3000km.

Things can add up. Adding oil might be the best way to do it as you are planning on doing a turbo you will need to do all those things when you build the turbo. I'm still adding oil to mine sometimes but then I drive it a lot less now it's not my daily.

[tw2]

That catalytic converter usually gets $80-100 from memory. The rest might be $10 max. Unfortunately I can't see it selling for that much.

I might just keep adding oil and look at it later in the year. I still have the suspension to get sorted and maybe by that time I can come up with a plan. I was originally going to turbo the 3sge for an experiment but I could always get a second hand 3sgte, rebuild it whenever I feel like it and use the 3sge head (after rebuild), or an ATS shortblock but that would be $$ and I believe I would still need to buy the water lines, oil cooler etc as they don't transfer over from the 3sge?

[GDII]

That catalytic converter usually gets $80-100 from memory. The rest might be $10 max. Unfortunately I can't see it selling for that much.

I might just keep adding oil and look at it later in the year. I still have the suspension to get sorted and maybe by that time I can come up with a plan. I was originally going to turbo the 3sge for an experiment but I could always get a second hand 3sgte, rebuild it whenever I feel like it and use the 3sge head (after rebuild), or an ATS shortblock but that would be $$ and I believe I would still need to buy the water lines, oil cooler etc as they don't transfer over from the 3sge?

I got $60 for my CAT which was more than I was expecting. I guess the muffler isn't the bit that makes the money.

If you are going all out, get a GEN4 3SGTE, rebuild it with 9.0:1 pistons and rods, slap on your Borg Warner turbo and get some Kelford cams. They make 3 types for the GEN4. The money spent on an old GEN2 3SGE or GTE would be the same if not more for a sub standard engine base. You'd need an aftermarket ECU to run the turbo on the GE so it's no different with the GEN4. Not sure if the GE head would be worth chasing power with unless you are after 600hp+ of which it won't be useable on the road anyway.

Just my thoughts on this, not that I have done any of it myself.

[tw2]

My goals are pretty basic, smallish fast spooling turbo with moderate boost (1 bar) and a broad torque curve with excellent driveability. Aftermarket ECU is a must and some decent time dialing it in on the Dyno. Stock cams and stock internals is fine.

I got $80 for my last 3sge cat about 10 years ago. I might contact some local wreckers sometime and see how many gen4 engines they get through and prices. If I went with ats I would look at the 5S 2.2. If I keep the current engine I would just use the stock internals if in ok shape, hone, bearings and seals.

[GDII]

Sounds like a supercharged 2GR-FE is what you need.
The GEN4 is more responsive than the old GEN2. I drove a stock GEN2 briefly and it was very slow to respond and then it made some power then ran out. The Caldina, even in a heavier chassis was so much more responsive and faster.

[afot]

Hey'a Tom! My 96' Gen 4 3SGE is very very crisp, especially at secondary intake speeds BUT i do only have 125'000 clicks on board ( I'm 1st Kiwi owner & i bought it with a cert'ed odo. @ 112'000 + I freshened up ignition with good shiv items.

The Gen 4's - atmo's - had 10.2:1 or 10.5:1 ( can't remember exactly... (Japaneese Toyota advertising brochure somewhere in my hse....) compression - from some J.D.M advertising that i have brought...
If your going to turbo a 3SGE you'd have to decompress the motor, no? or ya'd pop her apart or conecting thingies might get up set & bend or break!!?? = not good
On boost, 1 bar (14.7 psi) is just a moderate amount.... - if you "prep up" an engine for a "fun" but "useable" build.... Variable boost control...??? = FUN! YEA!! But not always there to stress out internals...
I like the atmo as there is no lagg at all, it's all boogie all the time ( working the box moderately so...) One down side is ( on the atmo'd that is) it ain't got no torque at all ( in all reality...) She's all cams cams cams, BUT I like REVS & hearing that square 2.0l wrung out!!! Always 98 Octane & sometimes an octane booster...
18-20 p.s.i = YES YES, do it!!!! Ha ha or l.o.l should i beez sayin nowadays....
You'll only rebuild it once??, no???
Do it & get it right, 1st time...
From your Forum postings - you always are very thorough Tom, of which is always a MASSIVE +.
Keen to see which way you venture... I know somebody with a Kiwi new 94 reasonably low k'd Celica ( manual too!) with a 5SFE in it who's thinking of selling it ( 2go MX5 ing, YUK!!! ,personally speaking + 6'4" don't go into MX5 to well, I'd think...?

[tw2]

No decompression required. The difference from 10.5:1 vs 9:1 is 4psi of boost. 10psi on the higher compression engine will be equivalent to running around 14psi on the 9:1 in terms of overall combustion pressures which is not a huge ask. There was a guy on mr2oc running 20psi, the heads lifted but the block stayed together, they just replaced the stock headbolts with arp's.

The engines are also very similar in terms of basic block, piston and rod strength. No oil squirters.

[tw2]

So no updates for a while. I have been getting my suspension sorted which has been a huge challenge. To recap it took 11 months for my koni's to arrive. I like to support NZ businesses but it could have been at my door via fedex in a few days ex-USA. Anyway, they then only sent 3 install kits for the 4 struts which meant I was one gland nut short (stock ones won't work) so another week for my local very busy engineer to make one. I also had my strut housing sway bar mounts beefed up a bit in case I get some whitelines.

Wasn't going anywhere for a while.

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Only had 3 of these, not helpful. George stock who is the distributor didn't care in the slightest and said they couldn't supply them and go back to the retail store who they also wouldn't be able to supply... nice.

[tw2]

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