Blacktop 3sge SW20

Want a thread dedicated to your car?
Got a seriously pimped-out ride? Building an extreme performance MR2? Post here!

Moderator: Moderators

Forum rules
This section of the forum is a great resource if you're looking for ideas, and it's a cool way of obtaining technical information that may otherwise not have been posted. (Members can use the Search functionality at top right of the forum to speed up finding things) Please respect others' contributions and don't diss anyone - keep comments helpful, factual, positive and polite. One thread per vehicle or owner please - don't start lots of threads about just one car. And if you need assistance with your car and want to host a spanner day, please use the appropriate section of the forum: viewforum.php?f=35 Thank you.
Reubenh
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:07 pm
Stomping Ground: Nelson
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: REUBEN

Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby Reubenh » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:49 pm

Currently I have a couple of threads running that I'd like to condense into one.

When I get home I will add what went on previously etc.

Currently my mr2 is sitting unused with a beams shaped hole in the middle.

All other stuff I do with the mr2 I'll try to update here..

Reubenh
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:07 pm
Stomping Ground: Nelson
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: REUBEN

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby Reubenh » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:04 pm

I was searching for some coolant port and that thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15436

A long time ago I pulled the engine out and then asked about beams swapping the MR2 and thats located here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14971

Reubenh
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:07 pm
Stomping Ground: Nelson
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: REUBEN

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby Reubenh » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:22 pm

So, about the cooling system..
On the back of the tez head there is only a heater line and a small line that runs off to the TB
IMG_20190710_215004.jpg


Where on the back of the gen4 there is a large spot for coolant (but I don't have the housing)
IMG_20190710_215026.jpg


I do want to confirm that the gen4's have a block off plate installed on the exhaust side water port (Where the alternator sits in those cars I think)
IMG_20190709_194516.jpg


And as far as mounting the block up to the S54 transmission I am 90% sure all of the holes on the block are the same as on the original gen2...
I have compared it visually and looks just the same anyway...

User avatar
GDII
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 3890
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:13 pm
Stomping Ground: Wellington
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: Phill

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby GDII » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:37 am

The gearbox will probably bolt up but you will need to run a GEN4 sump and oil system as the gearbox will force the engine to lean over making the GEN5 oil pick up and sump not work. The intake manifold may or may not fit now so a GEN4 one might need to be used.
1996 AE101 Corolla Sprint NZ New Daily
1990 SW20 MR2 G-Limited
2005 DY3 Demio
1990 EP81 Starlet XL (Sold)
1990 EE90 Corolla XL (Sold)
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/sw20glimited/

User avatar
GDII
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 3890
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:13 pm
Stomping Ground: Wellington
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: Phill

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby GDII » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:37 am

Reubenh wrote:So, about the cooling system..
On the back of the tez head there is only a heater line and a small line that runs off to the TB

Where on the back of the gen4 there is a large spot for coolant (but I don't have the housing)

Just need to buy the MR2 version for the back of the head. Will bolt straight up.
Reubenh wrote:I do want to confirm that the gen4's have a block off plate installed on the exhaust side water port (Where the alternator sits in those cars I think)

It appears the blanking plate is actually a mounting bracket too. For the SW20 it is this and for the Celica/RAV4/Caldina it's the alternator bracket. There is a gasket under it which appears to be the same as the Blacktop coolant outlet.
SW20 bracket
SW20 MR2 GEN4 3SGE Redtop Blanking Plate.png
SW20 MR2 GEN4 3SGE Redtop Blanking Plate.png (44.79 KiB) Viewed 471 times

SW20 gasket
SW20 MR2 GEN4 3SGE Redtop Gasket.png
SW20 MR2 GEN4 3SGE Redtop Gasket.png (63.56 KiB) Viewed 471 times

RAV4 Celica Caldina alternator bracket
RAV4 Celica CAldina GEN4 3SGE Redtop Alternator bracket.png
RAV4 Celica CAldina GEN4 3SGE Redtop Alternator bracket.png (76 KiB) Viewed 471 times


This link has some good photos showing the SW20 version of the bracket.
https://venusimports.com/products/jdm-t ... -swap-sw20
1996 AE101 Corolla Sprint NZ New Daily
1990 SW20 MR2 G-Limited
2005 DY3 Demio
1990 EP81 Starlet XL (Sold)
1990 EE90 Corolla XL (Sold)
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/sw20glimited/

Reubenh
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:07 pm
Stomping Ground: Nelson
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: REUBEN

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby Reubenh » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:17 am

GDII wrote:The gearbox will probably bolt up but you will need to run a GEN4 sump and oil system as the gearbox will force the engine to lean over making the GEN5 oil pick up and sump not work. The intake manifold may or may not fit now so a GEN4 one might need to be used.


I am using the factory gen 5 pump but a gen4 pickup and sump. Not sure quite which car that came from but I bought a whole beams fwd engine at one point with a blown piston for $100 haha

User avatar
GDII
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 3890
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:13 pm
Stomping Ground: Wellington
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: Phill

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby GDII » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:46 am

Reubenh wrote:
GDII wrote:The gearbox will probably bolt up but you will need to run a GEN4 sump and oil system as the gearbox will force the engine to lean over making the GEN5 oil pick up and sump not work. The intake manifold may or may not fit now so a GEN4 one might need to be used.


I am using the factory gen 5 pump but a gen4 pickup and sump. Not sure quite which car that came from but I bought a whole beams fwd engine at one point with a blown piston for $100 haha

Ah yip that should work.

If it's a FWD Greytop is will be from ST210 Caldina. So the bracket you might have will be for the alternator. You could cut this down if you are using the SW20 bracket on the other side. A bit more wiring to do there.
1996 AE101 Corolla Sprint NZ New Daily
1990 SW20 MR2 G-Limited
2005 DY3 Demio
1990 EP81 Starlet XL (Sold)
1990 EE90 Corolla XL (Sold)
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/sw20glimited/

User avatar
GDII
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 3890
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:13 pm
Stomping Ground: Wellington
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: Phill

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby GDII » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:47 am

This covers quite a few good things about the swap but doesn't answer everything.

https://midshiprunabout.org/mk2/writeup ... ice-versa/

Roman makes some good points here. He is well versed in SW20 3SGE and Tezza 3SGE.
http://www.mr2.com/forums/threads/95933 ... nfo-needed
1996 AE101 Corolla Sprint NZ New Daily
1990 SW20 MR2 G-Limited
2005 DY3 Demio
1990 EP81 Starlet XL (Sold)
1990 EE90 Corolla XL (Sold)
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/sw20glimited/

Reubenh
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:07 pm
Stomping Ground: Nelson
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: REUBEN

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby Reubenh » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:06 pm

I am wondering about making a block off plate and then tapping a hole for the tez coolant sensor.. or maybe just use a block off and then use a caldina rear water housing. The gen5 rear head port also has some kind of oil drain ran down an external hose in the block. You can see it enter the block here:
IMG_20190710_215009.jpg


And come from the head here:
IMG_20190710_215004.jpg



In other news. I have pulled off the tez fuel feed line onto the rail and replaced it with the fuel pressure regulator from the gen2 engine. There are bungs on both ends of the fuel rail so I have pulled the one closest to the rear of the engine off and will put the factory SW20 line on there if I can. It seems to look alright
IMG_20190710_215101.jpg
Fuel pressure regulator on Altezza fuel rail

Reubenh
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:07 pm
Stomping Ground: Nelson
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: REUBEN

Midship runabout

Postby Reubenh » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:24 pm

If you want to run the FWD waterlines, you need to run a FWD headgasket. The Altezza gasket has the water outlet at the other end of the engine, so it has different holes in it for the galleries.

Well that about answers it as far as blocking off the factory gen5 water outlet..
Those links are very interesting thanks@GDII.

User avatar
GDII
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 3890
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:13 pm
Stomping Ground: Wellington
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: Phill

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby GDII » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:57 pm

Reubenh wrote:I am wondering about making a block off plate and then tapping a hole for the tez coolant sensor.. or maybe just use a block off and then use a caldina rear water housing. The gen5 rear head port also has some kind of oil drain ran down an external hose in the block. You can see it enter the block here: IMG_20190710_215009.jpg

And come from the head here: IMG_20190710_215004.jpg


In other news. I have pulled off the tez fuel feed line onto the rail and replaced it with the fuel pressure regulator from the gen2 engine. There are bungs on both ends of the fuel rail so I have pulled the one closest to the rear of the engine off and will put the factory SW20 line on there if I can. It seems to look alright IMG_20190710_215101.jpg


You will be best to mount the coolant temp sensor in the rear as that is in the flow of water AFTER it has been through the head rather than just sitting at cylinder no1 as it goes into the engine.
I think that oil drain can be blocked off? It's for the RWD setup due to the engine not leaning over like the GEN4.

The Tezza fuel system is returnless so you'd need to make sure the return system on the SW20 still works. Normally the return line comes off the end of the rail rather than the centre. I suspect having it off the centre will cause fueling issues to 2 cylinders but I can't be sure as I have not seen nor tested this kind of setup.
1996 AE101 Corolla Sprint NZ New Daily
1990 SW20 MR2 G-Limited
2005 DY3 Demio
1990 EP81 Starlet XL (Sold)
1990 EE90 Corolla XL (Sold)
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/sw20glimited/

Reubenh
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:07 pm
Stomping Ground: Nelson
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: REUBEN

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby Reubenh » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:04 pm

https://www.txautosport.co.uk/products/ ... or-adapter
These guys make a fuel pressure regulator that is made for dead head systems and it sits in the middle of the rail like I have.. not sure it makes a difference to be honest, factory systems now have fuel pressure dampers in the rail so there will always be room for improvement.

I will have to use the front coolant port as otherwise I'll have to replace the head gasket according to that article..
With the temp sensor, why would Toyota have put it there from factory? I think it's the only clt on the engine loom.

Might need to look into getting a fwd intake manifold too...

User avatar
GDII
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 3890
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:13 pm
Stomping Ground: Wellington
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: Phill

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby GDII » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:30 pm

Reubenh wrote:https://www.txautosport.co.uk/products/c20let-turbo-engine-fuel-rail-pressure-regulator-adapter
These guys make a fuel pressure regulator that is made for dead head systems and it sits in the middle of the rail like I have.. not sure it makes a difference to be honest, factory systems now have fuel pressure dampers in the rail so there will always be room for improvement.

I will have to use the front coolant port as otherwise I'll have to replace the head gasket according to that article..
With the temp sensor, why would Toyota have put it there from factory? I think it's the only clt on the engine loom.

Might need to look into getting a fwd intake manifold too...

Lots of newer cars have the regulator in the fuel tank just after the pump. But I'm keen to learn what is best for this setup.

Yes, based on these 2 images I can see why and how these headgaskets dictate coolant flow. Very clever.

This redtop allows coolant to flow up from the block to the head at all cylinders then goes out the back.
3s-beams-redtop-headgasket.jpg
3s-beams-redtop-headgasket.jpg (7.24 KiB) Viewed 448 times


This blacktop gasket seals coolant to only come up from the block to cylinder 4 then flow along the head to one then out the front coolant port.
TBH trying to get the coolant hose externally across the engine bay to where the MR2 one is is going to way more of a headache than swapping gaskets and bolting on OEM parts.
3s-beams-blacktop-headgasket.jpg
3s-beams-blacktop-headgasket.jpg (77.05 KiB) Viewed 448 times


And yeah, the OEM GEN4 will be the best as the GEN5 will be in your boot. Not sure how the GEN4 is compatible with the GEN5 cosmetic valve cover.
1996 AE101 Corolla Sprint NZ New Daily
1990 SW20 MR2 G-Limited
2005 DY3 Demio
1990 EP81 Starlet XL (Sold)
1990 EE90 Corolla XL (Sold)
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/sw20glimited/

Reubenh
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:07 pm
Stomping Ground: Nelson
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: REUBEN

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby Reubenh » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:37 pm

With the cooling of the gen4's... What is the metal water hose that runs under the headers for?

I feel like they are heater hose sized
IMG_20190711_220854.jpg

IMG_20190711_220911.jpg

IMG_20190711_220850.jpg

User avatar
GDII
Club Member - MR2OCNZ
Posts: 3890
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:13 pm
Stomping Ground: Wellington
Prime Mover: SW20
First name: Phill

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Postby GDII » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:01 am

That circulates water around the engine when the thermostat is closed. All 3S engines have at least 1. The other is normally for the oil cooler/pre heater and the turbo return on the 3SGTE. You do need this pipe.

In the case of the GEN5 the squiggly pipe that goes up to the outlet port is the recirculating pipe while the other appears to be for the heater and oil cooler.
1996 AE101 Corolla Sprint NZ New Daily
1990 SW20 MR2 G-Limited
2005 DY3 Demio
1990 EP81 Starlet XL (Sold)
1990 EE90 Corolla XL (Sold)
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/sw20glimited/