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Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:49 pm
by Reubenh
Currently I have a couple of threads running that I'd like to condense into one.

When I get home I will add what went on previously etc.

Currently my mr2 is sitting unused with a beams shaped hole in the middle.

All other stuff I do with the mr2 I'll try to update here..

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:04 pm
by Reubenh
I was searching for some coolant port and that thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15436

A long time ago I pulled the engine out and then asked about beams swapping the MR2 and thats located here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14971

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:22 pm
by Reubenh
So, about the cooling system..
On the back of the tez head there is only a heater line and a small line that runs off to the TB
IMG_20190710_215004.jpg
Where on the back of the gen4 there is a large spot for coolant (but I don't have the housing)
IMG_20190710_215026.jpg
I do want to confirm that the gen4's have a block off plate installed on the exhaust side water port (Where the alternator sits in those cars I think)
IMG_20190709_194516.jpg
And as far as mounting the block up to the S54 transmission I am 90% sure all of the holes on the block are the same as on the original gen2...
I have compared it visually and looks just the same anyway...

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:37 am
by GDII
The gearbox will probably bolt up but you will need to run a GEN4 sump and oil system as the gearbox will force the engine to lean over making the GEN5 oil pick up and sump not work. The intake manifold may or may not fit now so a GEN4 one might need to be used.

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:37 am
by GDII
Reubenh wrote:So, about the cooling system..
On the back of the tez head there is only a heater line and a small line that runs off to the TB

Where on the back of the gen4 there is a large spot for coolant (but I don't have the housing)
Just need to buy the MR2 version for the back of the head. Will bolt straight up.
Reubenh wrote: I do want to confirm that the gen4's have a block off plate installed on the exhaust side water port (Where the alternator sits in those cars I think)
It appears the blanking plate is actually a mounting bracket too. For the SW20 it is this and for the Celica/RAV4/Caldina it's the alternator bracket. There is a gasket under it which appears to be the same as the Blacktop coolant outlet.
SW20 bracket
SW20 MR2 GEN4 3SGE Redtop Blanking Plate.png
SW20 MR2 GEN4 3SGE Redtop Blanking Plate.png (44.79 KiB) Viewed 6424 times
SW20 gasket
SW20 MR2 GEN4 3SGE Redtop Gasket.png
SW20 MR2 GEN4 3SGE Redtop Gasket.png (63.56 KiB) Viewed 6424 times
RAV4 Celica Caldina alternator bracket
RAV4 Celica CAldina GEN4 3SGE Redtop Alternator bracket.png
RAV4 Celica CAldina GEN4 3SGE Redtop Alternator bracket.png (76 KiB) Viewed 6424 times
This link has some good photos showing the SW20 version of the bracket.
https://venusimports.com/products/jdm-t ... -swap-sw20

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:17 am
by Reubenh
GDII wrote:The gearbox will probably bolt up but you will need to run a GEN4 sump and oil system as the gearbox will force the engine to lean over making the GEN5 oil pick up and sump not work. The intake manifold may or may not fit now so a GEN4 one might need to be used.
I am using the factory gen 5 pump but a gen4 pickup and sump. Not sure quite which car that came from but I bought a whole beams fwd engine at one point with a blown piston for $100 haha

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:46 am
by GDII
Reubenh wrote:
GDII wrote:The gearbox will probably bolt up but you will need to run a GEN4 sump and oil system as the gearbox will force the engine to lean over making the GEN5 oil pick up and sump not work. The intake manifold may or may not fit now so a GEN4 one might need to be used.
I am using the factory gen 5 pump but a gen4 pickup and sump. Not sure quite which car that came from but I bought a whole beams fwd engine at one point with a blown piston for $100 haha
Ah yip that should work.

If it's a FWD Greytop is will be from ST210 Caldina. So the bracket you might have will be for the alternator. You could cut this down if you are using the SW20 bracket on the other side. A bit more wiring to do there.

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:47 am
by GDII
This covers quite a few good things about the swap but doesn't answer everything.

https://midshiprunabout.org/mk2/writeup ... ice-versa/

Roman makes some good points here. He is well versed in SW20 3SGE and Tezza 3SGE.
http://www.mr2.com/forums/threads/95933 ... nfo-needed

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:06 pm
by Reubenh
I am wondering about making a block off plate and then tapping a hole for the tez coolant sensor.. or maybe just use a block off and then use a caldina rear water housing. The gen5 rear head port also has some kind of oil drain ran down an external hose in the block. You can see it enter the block here:
IMG_20190710_215009.jpg
And come from the head here:
IMG_20190710_215004.jpg

In other news. I have pulled off the tez fuel feed line onto the rail and replaced it with the fuel pressure regulator from the gen2 engine. There are bungs on both ends of the fuel rail so I have pulled the one closest to the rear of the engine off and will put the factory SW20 line on there if I can. It seems to look alright
Fuel pressure regulator on Altezza fuel rail
Fuel pressure regulator on Altezza fuel rail

Midship runabout

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:24 pm
by Reubenh
If you want to run the FWD waterlines, you need to run a FWD headgasket. The Altezza gasket has the water outlet at the other end of the engine, so it has different holes in it for the galleries.
Well that about answers it as far as blocking off the factory gen5 water outlet..
Those links are very interesting thanks@GDII.

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:57 pm
by GDII
Reubenh wrote:I am wondering about making a block off plate and then tapping a hole for the tez coolant sensor.. or maybe just use a block off and then use a caldina rear water housing. The gen5 rear head port also has some kind of oil drain ran down an external hose in the block. You can see it enter the block here: IMG_20190710_215009.jpg

And come from the head here: IMG_20190710_215004.jpg


In other news. I have pulled off the tez fuel feed line onto the rail and replaced it with the fuel pressure regulator from the gen2 engine. There are bungs on both ends of the fuel rail so I have pulled the one closest to the rear of the engine off and will put the factory SW20 line on there if I can. It seems to look alright IMG_20190710_215101.jpg
You will be best to mount the coolant temp sensor in the rear as that is in the flow of water AFTER it has been through the head rather than just sitting at cylinder no1 as it goes into the engine.
I think that oil drain can be blocked off? It's for the RWD setup due to the engine not leaning over like the GEN4.

The Tezza fuel system is returnless so you'd need to make sure the return system on the SW20 still works. Normally the return line comes off the end of the rail rather than the centre. I suspect having it off the centre will cause fueling issues to 2 cylinders but I can't be sure as I have not seen nor tested this kind of setup.

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:04 pm
by Reubenh
https://www.txautosport.co.uk/products/ ... or-adapter
These guys make a fuel pressure regulator that is made for dead head systems and it sits in the middle of the rail like I have.. not sure it makes a difference to be honest, factory systems now have fuel pressure dampers in the rail so there will always be room for improvement.

I will have to use the front coolant port as otherwise I'll have to replace the head gasket according to that article..
With the temp sensor, why would Toyota have put it there from factory? I think it's the only clt on the engine loom.

Might need to look into getting a fwd intake manifold too...

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:30 pm
by GDII
Reubenh wrote:https://www.txautosport.co.uk/products/ ... or-adapter
These guys make a fuel pressure regulator that is made for dead head systems and it sits in the middle of the rail like I have.. not sure it makes a difference to be honest, factory systems now have fuel pressure dampers in the rail so there will always be room for improvement.

I will have to use the front coolant port as otherwise I'll have to replace the head gasket according to that article..
With the temp sensor, why would Toyota have put it there from factory? I think it's the only clt on the engine loom.

Might need to look into getting a fwd intake manifold too...
Lots of newer cars have the regulator in the fuel tank just after the pump. But I'm keen to learn what is best for this setup.

Yes, based on these 2 images I can see why and how these headgaskets dictate coolant flow. Very clever.

This redtop allows coolant to flow up from the block to the head at all cylinders then goes out the back.
3s-beams-redtop-headgasket.jpg
3s-beams-redtop-headgasket.jpg (7.24 KiB) Viewed 6402 times
This blacktop gasket seals coolant to only come up from the block to cylinder 4 then flow along the head to one then out the front coolant port.
TBH trying to get the coolant hose externally across the engine bay to where the MR2 one is is going to way more of a headache than swapping gaskets and bolting on OEM parts.
3s-beams-blacktop-headgasket.jpg
3s-beams-blacktop-headgasket.jpg (77.05 KiB) Viewed 6402 times
And yeah, the OEM GEN4 will be the best as the GEN5 will be in your boot. Not sure how the GEN4 is compatible with the GEN5 cosmetic valve cover.

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:37 pm
by Reubenh
With the cooling of the gen4's... What is the metal water hose that runs under the headers for?

I feel like they are heater hose sized
IMG_20190711_220854.jpg
IMG_20190711_220911.jpg
IMG_20190711_220850.jpg

Re: Blacktop 3sge SW20

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:01 am
by GDII
That circulates water around the engine when the thermostat is closed. All 3S engines have at least 1. The other is normally for the oil cooler/pre heater and the turbo return on the 3SGTE. You do need this pipe.

In the case of the GEN5 the squiggly pipe that goes up to the outlet port is the recirculating pipe while the other appears to be for the heater and oil cooler.