Wheel alignment settings

[warrior]

I am ready to do an alignment on my 1992 sw non turbo, it is a weekend car for fast fun. What do you guys use or recommend?

[98beamsmkII]

Word of advise, never get a wheel alignment at a place that sells tyres!

Although the camber (and castor on gen2+) is not adjustable it can be tweaked by loosening the bolts and pushing the item in the desired orientation, don't let the alignment guys convince you otherwise.

Although 1992 it could be Gen1 or Gen2, the rear suspension is radically different in dynamic toe (and a few other little changes). Do you know which one it is?

What wheels and tyre sizes are you running on it?

[DrDarkMatter]

ask Russki, she know them off the top of her head.

[320ifq]

I think that standard manufacturer steering geometry settings are usually set up to give a nice feel to the steering, the clasic one is toe in, which when set to the usuall 2-3mm gives the steering a nice return to the straight ahead position when straightening up from a corner. Front wheels can be set to pertty much parallel, however this produces a nervous twitchy feel, not good for middle aged shoppers, but ok for people with a more adventureous spirit.
As for camber.... officially non adjustable, however the holes on the front strut can be slotted using a vertical mill or if you have to a file, this can be increased beyond the manufacturers setting but depending on the tyres/rim in use may be limited by the tyre rubbing on the front strut, i have given other cars some more camber with no problems. Also is is atleast cheap or no cost at all if a file is used, just go easy as a 1-2mm slot will give a huge camber increase
Castor is a little more difficult to change without changing major suspension parts. if you increase castor you also increase camber as the wheel is turned to the full lock position. This is the case as with many steering geometry and suspension settings, as you alter one another is also increased or reduced this is the case when cars are lowered too much and end up with massive camber that wears out the tyres edge in a short time, might better to leave this alone.
I am sure a tyre/suspension shop will take a couple of grand off you if you want, my suggestion would be to set it up with a couple of laser levels or straight edges and tape measure, giving a slight toe in and then try increasing the camber a little, remember only adjust one thing at a time and check the toe in evey time a change is made otherwise the tyre tread will disappear rapidly.
I am sure all the guys who work in tyre shops won't agree after all it is their living.

[DrDarkMatter]

ya it may very well be there living but I have never, had what I would call a good alignment at a tyre shop, maybe its just my bad luck but .........never!

[DrDarkMatter]

I think that standard manufacturer steering geometry settings are usually set up to give a nice feel to the steering, the clasic one is toe in, which when set to the usuall 2-3mm gives the steering a nice return to the straight ahead position when straightening up from a corner. Front wheels can be set to pertty much parallel, however this produces a nervous twitchy feel, not good for middle aged shoppers, but ok for people with a more adventureous spirit.
As for camber.... officially non adjustable, however the holes on the front strut can be slotted using a vertical mill or if you have to a file, this can be increased beyond the manufacturers setting but depending on the tyres/rim in use may be limited by the tyre rubbing on the front strut, i have given other cars some more camber with no problems. Also is is atleast cheap or no cost at all if a file is used, just go easy as a 1-2mm slot will give a huge camber increase
Castor is a little more difficult to change without changing major suspension parts. if you increase castor you also increase camber as the wheel is turned to the full lock position. This is the case as with many steering geometry and suspension settings, as you alter one another is also increased or reduced this is the case when cars are lowered too much and end up with massive camber that wears out the tyres edge in a short time, might better to leave this alone.
I am sure a tyre/suspension shop will take a couple of grand off you if you want, my suggestion would be to set it up with a couple of laser levels or straight edges and tape measure, giving a slight toe in and then try increasing the camber a little, remember only adjust one thing at a time and check the toe in evey time a change is made otherwise the tyre tread will disappear rapidly.
I am sure all the guys who work in tyre shops won't agree after all it is their living.

I dont think its very smart for the average layman to muck around with this stuff, it is have serious consequences one the handling of you car.

just my thoughts

[GDII]

I have had good alignments to factory spec but my 1990 has the 92+ rear sub frame and control arms. Are the rear alignment specs different for the newer cars? If so I should probably mention that to the next place to do an alignment on the car.

[DrDarkMatter]

yes...

if you can go into the alignment place knowing what you want, some places will even let you sit in the car while they are doing it, yes its a small difference but it can be worth it as the car sits differently when you are in it.

[Benckj]

I will only go an alignment shop which has a decent 'technician' who understands alignment. If they give me some pimply face kid who only wants to follow factory specs I run away. The specs I follow are based on the US autocross ones which give best handling but may have more tyre wear.

91-92 version
FRONT
Camber -2.5 or greater
Caster 5.0 deg
Toe 0.3 deg OUT
REAR
Camber -1.5
Toe 0.3 deg IN

93+ version
FRONT
Camber -2.5+
Caster not adjustable
Toe 0.3 deg OUT
REAR
Camber -1.5deg
Toe 0.15 deg IN

Important to have all your suspension components up to scratch before hand. Installing Prothane bushes, struts and any final tyre/wheel combination is better done first.

[320ifq]

I think that standard manufacturer steering geometry settings are usually set up to give a nice feel to the steering, the clasic one is toe in, which when set to the usuall 2-3mm gives the steering a nice return to the straight ahead position when straightening up from a corner. Front wheels can be set to pertty much parallel, however this produces a nervous twitchy feel, not good for middle aged shoppers, but ok for people with a more adventureous spirit.
As for camber.... officially non adjustable, however the holes on the front strut can be slotted using a vertical mill or if you have to a file, this can be increased beyond the manufacturers setting but depending on the tyres/rim in use may be limited by the tyre rubbing on the front strut, i have given other cars some more camber with no problems. Also is is atleast cheap or no cost at all if a file is used, just go easy as a 1-2mm slot will give a huge camber increase
Castor is a little more difficult to change without changing major suspension parts. if you increase castor you also increase camber as the wheel is turned to the full lock position. This is the case as with many steering geometry and suspension settings, as you alter one another is also increased or reduced this is the case when cars are lowered too much and end up with massive camber that wears out the tyres edge in a short time, might better to leave this alone.
I am sure a tyre/suspension shop will take a couple of grand off you if you want, my suggestion would be to set it up with a couple of laser levels or straight edges and tape measure, giving a slight toe in and then try increasing the camber a little, remember only adjust one thing at a time and check the toe in evey time a change is made otherwise the tyre tread will disappear rapidly.
I am sure all the guys who work in tyre shops won't agree after all it is their living.

I dont think its very smart for the average layman to muck around with this stuff, it is have serious consequences one the handling of you car.

just my thoughts

How does anyone rate the technical ability of people posting questions or answers?

[98beamsmkII]

Umm, I think the guy is after a basic idea of what to get done! Nothing too dramatic.... I get the feeling this thread has deviated a lot from warrior's original request.

The MR2 has many handling modifications depending on what you use it for and with the components you have - IE: You wouldn't have front toe out for drag racing but you would for autocross and you wouldn't adjust the castor if you are not keen on forking out for adjustable castor arms or risking damaging them via modification.

I'm keen to hear from warrior in terms of what he actually has and what he wants the car to do before we debate further.

[Russki]

On my old(er) Mr2 Sw20 I put maximum negative camber on front and rear that it possible without mods.
caster 3.25+
toe Front 0.2-0.5mm IN (per wheel, not total!)
toe Back 1.0-1.2mm IN (per wheel, not total!)

93+
same for camber- whatever as negative as possible without mod
toe Front 0.4-0.6mm IN per wheel
toe Back 1.6mm IN per wheel

as you can see main difference here is in rear wheels toe because difference between toe rods from gen to gen. i've found more toe IN on back wheels for 93+ cars can add more stability on corners when you start accelerating out of it.
For autoX I would indeed set up just like Jim said (depending on what I've got of course). The last adjusting point will be the driver anyway (or not since we are so resistant to any critic comments).

In addition, indeed, do not assume that guys in tyre shop by defaults are gods in alignment. After all, they 1st priority is to sell you tyres (actually for them it would be better if you chew thru tyre as fast as you can, they will sell you another tyre!). From time to time I have to go with customers cars for wheel alignment. If my usual place is not available on short notice I had to go usual tyre places. Never (NEVER!!!) I ended up with good alignment, and I've tried a few. One place, for example, left car with steering wheel not centered (and then had balls to tell me that's normal), another place left 3 tyres out of 4 unbalanced. When I came back and rechecked balance at my usual garage myself, my mechanic said that it wasn't first time when cars came from that place with dodgy balancing and alignment.
Can't speak for every tyre shop though. Some may well be very good.

[warrior]

My car is just a weekend road car, happy to trade a bit of tyre wear for better handling as it does very little miles. I have a MX5 with quite an agressive alianment and enjoy it a lot. So.........nothing outragious but leaning towards sporrty driving

[98beamsmkII]

My car is just a weekend road car, happy to trade a bit of tyre wear for better handling as it does very little miles. I have a MX5 with quite an agressive alianment and enjoy it a lot. So.........nothing outragious but leaning towards sporrty driving

Cool (to me that sounds like my version of a sunday drive car, nothing too twitchy and feels sure footed)

Toe out is not the go there!

But we need to know what you have!
As an example If you have lowered the car the dynamic toe will now sit in a different position in the stroke vs toe curve! If you have Gen 1 the rear toe arms are smaller, this gives toe out on the wheel upward strokes rather then toe in as it does on the Gen 2+ (the stroke vs toe curves are inverse of one another) and so the resting wheel alignment for each is different.

[petrolhead]

Would i be correct in saying that the factory wheel alignment on these has toe out in the rear? I had a look on the wheel spec on the wheel alignment computer on beaurepairs (i have a mate that works there) and i am pretty sure it said 2 or 3 degrees out in the rear